Episode 43: Why You Should Exercise for Sanity, Not Vanity with Steve Washuta
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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Up-Beet Dietitians Podcast. In today's episode, we are joined by Steve Washuda. Steve is an NASM certified personal trainer and corrective exercise specialist and he also holds certifications in TRX, Peak, Pilates, and more. Steve is the author of Fitness Business 101. He also is the course creator of Fitness Business 101 NASM CEU Course. He is also the co-founder of Truly Fit. We hope that you enjoy today's episode. Enjoy. All right. Hello, everybody, and Hello, Steve. Welcome to the Up-Beet Dietitians podcast. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Well, so good to have you. We are going to talk today about the difference in vanity versus health. But before we kind of get into that, Steve, walk us through a day in the life. What you do for work, education, hobbies, all that good stuff. I do a little bit of everything in the fitness world. You name it, I do it. I'm a personal trainer, corrective exercise specialist. I have a Pilates background. I have about twelve certifications. None of that really matters. And I also now co own a software company called Truly Fit. Maybe we can talk about that later on. This isn't a self promotional here, so I work on the software company. I wrote a book called Fitness Business 101 behind me, so I still sell that book. It's also now a course that is for NASM continuing education units. So I sell that course as well. And that takes up most of my day. And my hobbies are taking care of my seven month old daughter, doing kickboxing, and that's it. And podcasting. So that's about it. Your daughter is so cute. What's her name again? Thank you. I'm Mackenzie McKenzie. Oh, she's adorable. All right. Well, let's get right into the beefy stuff. I guess kind of the first question. So I guess I'll kind of preface why we're going over this so on our podcast. Emily and I, as you guys know by now, talk about body positivity and that sort of thing quite a bit. And so we wanted to get a fitness professional view on that sort of thing. And really, like I said in the beginning, kind of dive into exercising for vanity versus exercising for health and kind of the differences between those, if one matters more than the other, that sort of thing. So, Steve, our first question for you is what is the difference between exercising for vanity or looks or exercising for health? Yeah, I think in a short answer, I would say the difference is vanity is now and health comes later. But to unpack that a little bit more, the introduction into fitness and health is typically vanity based. Right. You can be 17 and you want to get the girl next door. So you think I need bigger chest and bicep muscles, or you can be 55 and maybe you haven't worked out and you say, you know what? I'm gaining a little weight in my mid section. I need to lose this. Right? That's totally fine. Right. If that is your gateway into health and fitness and making better dieting decisions and making better food choices or making better choices in the exercise realm, that's great. But I think where the problem comes in and maybe we'll get to this down the road is that if you're only focused on vanity and if that is the number one goal, some of the things you're going to do can then be detrimental to your health because ultimately the exercises that you choose comes with a cost. For example, if you're running. Right, let's go ahead and say, I go run 10 miles now, there's a positive metabolic cost. I'm burning a lot of calories, but there's a negative structural cost. I'm pounding my ankles and knees and hips nonstop. Right. So where is that line of diminishing returns? And when do I care more about my body rather than losing those calories? I love that answer. This is something I never think about. I feel like it's something Hannah, and I was talking about this before you came on. Like it's this unspoken thing. A lot of people talk about that they exercise for how they look. But thinking about the short term versus the long term is such a good way to put it, especially I'm a runner, for example, and I run for mental health more so. But it's so interesting to think about it that way that right now it's doing its job. But the long-term standpoint, what are kind of the other kinds of side effects that might come from that just something I think a lot of people think about. They think very much in the now. Yeah, totally. I don't know about what you guys think of this, but I imagine whatever you're eating now and whatever your sort of dietary prescription is may change as you get older, too. Right. Like hormones change and maybe you don't need as many calories at 63 as you do at 23. And all those things change. And that's no different in the lifting world. Right. There's exercises that you may need or that may be beneficial for you in your 20s and 30s. But when you get into your 40s and 50s and 60s, it may be more about mobility, maybe doing some more yoga and things of that nature because you don't need all of that muscle and that your body starts to sort of wear down and you need to be able to move in all directions. That's such a good way to put it. Like Emily said and you said, we just think so much about how is working out going to affect us right now. We don't think about how it might change over time. So such a good point. All right, let's get into our next question. So all that being said, Steve, do you think that it is okay to kind of exercise for both looks and for health? Are they mutually exclusive? Are they not? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I would say they're not. You can certainly exercise for both. And again, I think people will always get into fitness or not always, but usually get into fitness due to vanity. They want to look better, and that is fine. It's just the sort of learning process of when am I going to put that goal secondary to my health? And typically, Unfortunately, I try to warn people, but it doesn't happen until they get injured. So something happens. Right. And maybe they throw their back out trying to deadlift too much weight or they have an ACL surgery or they have just joint pain and arthritis or things of that nature. And then they start to think more about, OK, well, maybe I can't do this exercise anymore. What else can I do instead? Okay, this exercise helps me and I don't have this sort of pain. And then that clicks in their head and they think, okay, if I can do some exercises and replace other exercises with these better exercises to help me be more healthy, maybe I should review my whole routine and see what else I can potentially substitute out that could still be hitting my goals for both vanity but also not being deleterious long term to my health. I have no thoughts because I'm just processing off. It's not how people think about no. My biggest issue here is I don't know if this is going to be a question and I'll just go answer it ahead of time. But my biggest issue in the fitness industry is that there's so many people who are masquerading health as vanity. So they're telling you, look how healthy I am because I have an eight pack. I coined this term, health is in your labs, not in your abs. Right. You need to go to the physician and they need to check the levels of your CBC panels and your liver panels and your vitamin panels and these things that tells you what's healthy, not because you have an eight pack. And I think that people say, listen, I'm healthy. This is what I look like. Right. I have 4% body fat. I must be healthy. No, there's a very good chance you're not healthy. Right. What is your day to day like? What is your mental health like from having to do that, the excess amount of protein you have to eat? I mean, I have friends who are training for bodybuilding competitions that would wake up twice. They wake up at 02:00 A.M. And 06:00 A.M. I do that anyway because I have a seven month old, but they would do that knowingly because they had to get an extra 50 grams of protein. Where else are you suffering in this to get to look like this? And when are you going to try to stop pretending that this doesn't come with a cost? This comes with the cost, yes. And I love that you brought the mental health side of it, too. We've talked about this a lot in the nutrition side of things as well. Like, you can absolutely have #bodygoals. But if your relationship with food is terrible, if you are stressed about eating a donut, that sends you into a downward spiral, if you get really anxious because you have to get on the scale tomorrow, and that just makes your choices different based off of what member says, I think we can all argue that that would not be a good indicator of you being healthy. So, yeah, you're totally right about that as well. Yeah. And it seems to be doubly unhealthy now because now you have people who are so obsessed in both realms. So you just made a post about this, Hannah, recently, where people are so crazy with counting everything they eat and writing everything down, of course. And you guys can speak to this. Maybe you disagree with this. I did this for a short period of time, maybe like six months to a year, and that allowed me to have sort of a baseline knowledge of what I was eating. Right. So then I can go to a restaurant and just know subconsciously I know around what this is about. Not that I'm making the decision off of this, but at least learned. Right. But people who have to write that down every day and have to go through that process that transfers over also to fitness. Now they're doing that in the nutrition side. They're doing on the fitness side saying, like, I have to meet these goals and these criteria, and I have to lift this particular way and go through this regimen and it becomes unhealthy. Sometimes it's good to just walk into the gym and say, I don't know what I'm going to do today. I just want to get there and see what's going on. Maybe I'll hop on cardio for ten minutes. Maybe I'll go play basketball, maybe I'll go swimming. Maybe I'll lift weights. Who knows, who cares, right? It's all exercise and it's all healthy. Exactly. I always say that any movement is good movement. And like you kind of said, too, it's all about the why when it comes to all these things, if you are just exercising to look a certain way or to burn calories or whatever, it's not going to be sustainable. Either you're going to do that for a short time and then you're going to find out that you don't actually like lifting weights or you don't actually like running or swimming or whatever you decide that you're doing in that moment to reach some arbitrary goal, and then it's just not going to be able to stick for very long. And then you're going to feel like you failed because you only did it for a week or two. And it's just that vicious cycle of feeling like you don't actually ever learn or build those habits. Yeah, totally. And to speak specifically about lifting regimens, I just had a conversation with someone. A lot of the lifting that people do for vanity is the sort of exercise prescriptions that we had in the 70s and 80s and 90s. These bodybuilding Arnold Schwarzenegger type things where we're moving in one plane of motion and we're lifting in sort of a ten, eight, six, four repetition range. Very heavy weights. Lifting in one plane of motion, isolating muscles. That's fine to look a certain way, but that doesn't make your body work better necessarily. Right. So that's not working through all planes of motion, which is important, as we know, as personal trainers. You want to move in sort of a circular fashion, rotational fashion. You want to be able to move side to side laterally. Right. You have to move in all planes of motion and you want to work small accessory muscles and you want to be mobile. Right. There's more to it than just moving in one plane of motion. That goes again with the vanity health thing, where it really helps to look a certain way to lift heavy and to do those big muscle lifts. But let's say you only have 1 hour in the gym if you're doing that, that means you're not working on the smaller muscles and accessory muscles. So I think that comes into it, too. It's like this isn't in a vacuum. You have to look at your time and say, okay, if I'm spending all of my time working in this area, what else am I missing out on? And is that worthwhile? Yeah. Another good point. I hate to say I know it's a cliche now. Everyone kind of makes fun of it, but when those 19 year old, brand new little trainers say we all have the same 24 hours in a day, you can spend 2% of it in the gym. Not everyone really can or has the ability to or the funds to for the child care to do so. That brings up another good point, too. It's going to look different for everybody. And if you're not doing the stereotypical weight lifting, that's okay. You can still get a really great workout in doing all different kinds of movement. Yeah. I think there's another issue that comes to mind for me, and I know that I had this issue at some point, and a lot of guys do. There's going to be a point in your life where you get to past a certain age and hormones change and things go downhill and you're never going to look like how you used to look it doesn't matter. And you're never going to be as strong as you were at 24 and 25. So if your only goal is vanity, well, guess what? At some point you are going to be losing that battle at all times. So I think it's good to I say when you're a personal trainer, work with older clients, and I'm sure it's good as a registered dietitian. Right. To work with various ages. Right. To work with 18 year olds and to work with 73 year olds. Because then you get to see the full spectrum of what's going on in everyone's life. And you can sort of guide people and say, yeah, this is good for you now, but what if you have a client for ten years, you're going to be giving them the same diet prescription at 33, then they are at 43. No. Or maybe your client gets pregnant. Right? Then they have to have different sort of food sources or food types. Same thing with lifting, right. So I think it's important to understand that we're not all the same. We shouldn't be lifting and eating the same our entire lives and that this is an ebb and a flow and it changes and we have to be willing to change. And if our goal is always general health and wellness and everything else is second, then you'll make that right choice. But unfortunately, vanity is the goal. You won't always make that right choice, right? Exactly. And that's why generic meal plans are not effective for people. Or why like generic workouts that you just Google or find out, like Bodybuilding.com are not going to be effective for most people, at least not in the long term. Of course, you can do a random workout and it can be fine. But we change as we get older. Even like day to day, things are always different. And every single person individually is different too. Something else that I always say that is that we could all eat the exact same and move our body the exact same way. We'd all still look very different. And maybe what I'm eating wouldn't even be beneficial to someone else. Like you said, ebs and flows. Yeah. That's why we have specialists like you guys to work with people individually and ask them questions. Otherwise we wouldn't need specialist and everyone could just eat the same thing. Yeah, that'd be a wild world. Just eating the same thing. Probably also very boring. So dry is very fun and good for everyone. I want to move into the next question though, so I'm excited to hear your answer for this question because this is something we deal with every single day. So I love to hear your perspective. So in the world of social media and constant comparison, especially, I see all the time in the fitness realm. How can listeners start to make the shift of valuing their health over their looks with how much society has really changed over the past ten years. Yeah. I don't know if I have the best answer, but I will go over how I work with clients, too. A lot of times I relate health to finances for people and try to show it as sort of a metaphor. You don't want to have the most money when you're the least capable of using it. You don't want to get into the later part of your life and have all of this money and not be able to use it. So it's important, just like you save for retirement, that you're working on your health long term and that you're healthy so that you can do the things you want to do. If you're a 22 year old and you're just getting out of College and you're working your first job in the big city and you're not getting paid much and you're trying to work your way up, well, guess what? If you want to eventually take those vacations one day to Paris and do those things you see people doing online and live a life and have a family and go through those things, you have to take care of your body too, not just your finances, because what's the point of having all that money if you're in a wheelchair and you have type two diabetes and you have COPD and all these chronic issues because you haven't been taking care of yourself? So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing I would say is the data is out. We've seen if you've watched The Social Dilemma, which is a really good documentary on Netflix, Jonathan Haidt wrote a book, The Coddling of the American Mind. In it, he talks about how I think it's self harm in preteens, especially girls, is up three folds. Suicide rates are through the roof. Social media is not making people happy. So it might be a short term happiness, but it's not long term happy. It's not going to help you. So I think that needs to be talked about and people need to be spending less time on it. And I don't know if that comes from now that I have a daughter. I have to think about that as a parent. How do I get my daughter to spend less time on social media? I think part of it is having more sort of intrinsic worth, making sure that people it's not about people saying that you do great things. It's about you thinking you do great things. Right. So parents like myself have to tell their kids, it's not that I'm proud of you, it's that you should be proud of yourself. And the more intrinsic things we can put into our children moving forward, the less they'll need things like social media and to have likes and have everyone else like what they want. And they'll find it within to say I'm doing all the right things as far as what's going on now on social media, too. I just want to say almost everybody is doing something that you don't know they're doing. So let me unpack that a little bit. Maybe it's the best filter that you don't know about. Maybe it's that they purposely dehydrated their body for these particular pictures. They took a zillion of them and then they space them out for 180 days and they post him every other day. Right. But really, that's not the case. They look like shit most of the time. So I think we need to understand that there's always things going on. I can speak more to the guys side than the girls side. Almost every sort of superhero that you've seen outside of maybe Spiderman and Henry Cavill has been on a large amount of steroids. These guys are all on testosterone and some other steroids, ample amounts of it. They're getting ready for the movie. They have particular people who are there working with them, registered dietitians, nutritionists, all of these people personal trainers getting ready for these spots. That's not normal life. Again, like we talked about, there is no final solution. There are only trade offs. And because everything is a trade off, I promise you. These people who look great and even if they're not using all of these things we just talked about, they're trading off something, whether it's they're trading off their time with their family and friends because they're spending 6 hours a day in the gym and then going to the grocery store and wolfing down protein shakes. And they don't care about anything else in life, whether obviously their health is something that's a cost. Right. If they're not doing that the proper way, there's so many things that they don't have going on in their lives that you do. So again, it's important to look intrinsically and say, okay, yeah, maybe that person has a six pack. Who cares? What do they have to do to get that? And I have a lot of good things going on in my life. I don't need that. I feel like that was a very good response to all that. Social media is fake. I feel like people say this all the time. People are choosing to show you what they like. They're choosing what you see. It's like a highlight reel, especially. I like that you talked about like the superheroes and whatnot, because I feel like everyone thinks I always see like the personal training videos and then that's kind of it. And then I was like, I don't really know much about that. So I was like, oh, they have special personal trainers that make them look that way. But you don't think about how much it's like their job to look like that and prepare for those movies. And they're kind of going back to what Hannah said. Everyone's 24 hours is very different. Theirs is dedicated to looking like this and also just thinking about also what they're giving up. I really like that. You talked about that, too. And maybe not in the sense of, like, giving up, but what is more of a priority than something else or what you might have in your life that they don't necessarily. It's not like they have it all. No one has it all. So thinking about kind of what their time looks like, what their resources are. Also, they have the top of the line people like helping them out and not most people don't have access to that. So it's important not to compare yourself because you don't know everything going on in their life, and everyone's life is very different. So just always keep that in mind. Yeah. And I think pictures, unfortunately, do not do it justice as far as showing what's going on in people's lives. I've been someone my whole life who's never really liked pictures. I had times in high school and College, and this is weird where somebody who I didn't really like will put their arm around me and we'd get a picture together. And I'm like, ten years from now, there's going to be a picture of me and this person floating around and someone's going to be like, oh, they were friends. I'm like, no, I didn't like that person, but I didn't dislike them enough to say, I won't be in a picture with you. But I just mean, like, pictures can be deceiving, right? We don't know what's going on, and I don't think it's a good way to judge people and what's going on in their lives. And people are insecure. They're going to hide the bad things going on and they're going to illuminate the good things going on. And that's always the case. I don't think social media is going away. We have to use more of it. Everyone is on TikTok and Instagram, and there's probably going to be a new platform by the end of next month because that's just the way this is developing. So I don't think we can keep people off of it. I just think we have to find a responsible way to use it. And maybe you can tell me more. I'm very new to the sort of, like understanding TikTok game, but I do feel like there is a bit more of, like, value and people showing themselves on TikTok than just like an Instagram picture of some naked model on a yacht. Yeah, I agree that video is much more raw. It's pretty hard to Photoshop a video and make it look a certain way. So I think that is a benefit of TikTok. I mean, it's social media. You still choose what you show everybody. But I think it's a better direction than Instagram. Emily and I kind of harp on Instagram all the time because it is just a highlight reel and everyone's judging whatever. But yeah, I think that hopefully TikTok is a bit better in that way, that it is more raw and people really are kind of showing up as they are on Tik Tok. I know I do. I often just kind of get on and talk about what I want to talk about with my hair and a bun, my glasses on like nothing fancy. Whereas on YouTube or on Instagram, I've kind of always felt the pressure to have to do my hair, my makeup, put on a nice top. Because those platforms, the videos and pictures do better when people look better, whereas TikTok, it really is. I think the content is more what matters and it gets pretty cool. What do you think? And I feel like, Hannah, you do this sometimes. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I'm of the school that we should sometimes call people out and that it's not always me. And you don't have to necessarily say their names, but you can talk about the general types of people who are doing these things. There are some people who say like, oh, you shouldn't worry about them. Good information will beat out bad. You don't have to call people out, but I don't think so. I think sometimes you have to call out people and say, no, this is not okay. You're confusing a lot of young people and that this is a lot I really agree with that. I'll get a lot of different hate comments sometimes on certain videos because of what Tik Tok is like. If you ever go viral, your comments are wild, a lot of love, but also a lot of hate. And you can just sit back and ignore those really mean comments. They're like, no, you're wrong. Carbs are the devil. We should never eat them. But then people see that. They see those comments and think that's the truth. But I like to call them out. And I know that does bring some negativity to my page when I kind of do that because then it's almost like starting a little tussle. But I agree it's good to kind of call them out as long as you can kind of provide reasons why you're doing so. Not just being like, oh, you're dumb for saying that. I try to use evidence and say this is why we do need Carbs and why they're not bad, why we shouldn't demonize them. And so, yeah, I agree that depending on the situation, it's good to call them out in a hopefully kind way, just so that just the random trolls can't just keep trolling. Yeah. I mean, I think it's productive to call them out if you're doing it in a way in which you're trying to teach them something. I even think sometimes just message them one on one. I think when people are in the comments section, it's almost like this. They are ready to stir up the shit and get things going. But I've done it before where I've messaged someone like DM them and said, hey, I just wanted to reach out if you ever have any questions. My name is Steve, but here's why I disagree with this particular thing you said. And if this is the information I have and feel free to write back and people are so nice to you one on one in that DM because they don't feel like they have all of the commenters. There sort of like being a team. I have to fight for myself in front of these people because he made me look like a fool. That's actually a really good idea, because if you respond in the comments, anytime I've ever tried to disagree in a comment, they never change their mind. And when I always joke about this, like you could fight with people for hours and hours in the comments and they would never change their mind, that's actually a really good idea to kind of approach it that way one on one, unless I'm doing that. I like that. Yeah. I think there's a psychology behind it where they just double down. Right. They don't want to be called out. They feel like people are also looking at these comments, so they just continue to double down. And you're never going to change anyone's mind. I mean, you may change people's minds who are reading the comments. And I think that's really what the process is. So if it's Hannah and I going at it and whatever. Right. She's saying “don’t eat carbs,” I'm saying “eat carbs,” and then I'm trying to get Team Carb with me and she's trying to get Team Keto with her. That's what we're really trying to do. Right. She knows I'm not going to change her mind. I know I'm not going to change her mind. But I want those other people reading that comment to potentially side with me. And it gets into this non-stop battle where you're willing to go 45 comments deep, one on one with someone until you quote, unquote, win, and that doesn't become productive. No. I had one video go kind of viral, and this person, they were constantly for 24 hours straight until I had to block them because they were being so crazy for 24 hours, they were in my comments just fighting with everybody. And it's what made the video go viral because TikTok thought that it was just like the best thing ever that this video was getting all this interaction. So I thank them for that, I guess. But for 24 hours straight, they must not have slept or worked on anything. They were just like constantly commenting in my section. It was wild talk about mental health problems. That's another reason why it's continuing. All right. Well, I say we jump into our final section where we kind of like to ask our guests to kind of sum up what we went over today, kind of give any final thoughts that you have and maybe kind of give a quick little blurb of kind of all of this in a sentence or two. Sure. So exercise is good in any format, and I would never tell anyone otherwise. However, you will be led through the door in your initial working out phases through vanity, you should eventually get to the point where health supersedes vanity. That is a combination of you looking over your exercise prescription and saying, is some of this doing me harm? Am I only focused on getting muscles bigger because hypertrophy isn't the key to health? There are other things. We need mobility, we need flexibility. We need full body strength. We need small muscles. And when is that point going to be? When I could potentially get injured and then have to rework everything? I want to avoid that. So just take a step back, look at what you do in the health and exercise world, and say, what is my actual goal? If it is vanity, maybe I need to switch that over to being health before vanity. Again, health is in your labs, not in your abs. That's definitely going in, like one of our podcasts, like, pictures that quote, I love that. Yeah, cool. I think that wraps up today. Well, Steve, we always like to end our well, okay, before we get to this, thank you so much for talking about family versus health. I learned a lot today, and I know our listeners are going to enjoy this episode a lot because this is something that a lot of people think about, even if it's not consciously thinking about. Like, it's in the back of their mind, at least. And I think this is a conversation that needs to be had more. It needs to be heard, too. Well, thank you both for having me, because you're right, it did need to be had, and you have a good platform for it. Well, thank you. Yeah. So we like to end our episodes with a bonus question. And this typically it's kind of like a little bit of a debate, but it's more of us just kind of sharing our opinions because that's really what we need more of more things to share opinions. So we always like to have our guests start first. So the bonus question for today is, which is better chicken wings with or without bones? I can't give the answer. It depends. Right? Well, that's my answer every time. So you'd be in the majority if that was your answer. So don't sweat it. For me personally, it's a mood thing, but I'll rephrase your question and say, if you could only eat one for the rest of my life, what would it be? I like that one. Yeah. I have to go boneless. Wow. Okay. I feel like that is controversial. I didn't realize how this one's going to play out, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Do you have a reasoning for it, though? Oh, yes, that's it. I guess my reasoning is I'm probably 60 40 ordering boneless to regular wings, but I just feel like I get obviously, more meat. Like, if I'm really hungry, I could order eight boneless. I just feel like I'm filled up more. So that's really the reason. I get that. Yes, that's a really good reason. It makes me kind of want to change my answer because I think I'm team bone in. I just think they taste better. They're juicier. The sauce always tastes so good on them. But you're right. It's like a lot of work and not that much reward. Like I said, it depends. I don't have a preference either on really any food. I'm just like a human garbage disposal. So I kind of like everything. But if I had to pick only one forever, like you kind of rephrased it, I think I'd go bone in. I will be the tiebreaker of this debate. All right. And my reasoning has nothing to do with what either of you said is that I would choose boneless because I hate getting my hands dirty when I should have known. I will always choose a food that I can use a fork or a spoon over my hands any day as any. Who cares what the reason is? It's the reason I should have known that was your answer. Just based on that. Oh, my gosh. I like different explanations. I feel like we all had different reasons for it and no one's wrong. Sure. All bones are good all bones, all wings are good whether or not whether or not they have bones, all bones are good. So, Steve, we always like giving the floor to you and our guests at the end of each episode. Let our listeners know where they can find you. This is kind of your time to promote whatever you want to. Well, you can find pretty much all the links at fitnessbusiness101.com. It's also my full name. Stevewashita.com, also gets you to that same site, and all the links are there to the Truly Fit podcast and the Truly Fit platform that's coming out. My book, the course, all that stuff is there. But I will say, too, for anybody who's looking into the book of the course, if you're a certified personal trainer or even if you're a registered dietitian, the book and the course and what I do personally, I have a public relations background. I didn't mention that. And I worked in PR for years. That's what my degree is in New York City before I switched over to working in the fitness world. And I'll never forget the definition of PR is creating and maintaining relations between an organization and its constituents through strategic two way communication. And what that is is a long winded, fancy way of saying, in order to have a successful business, you need to be honest with people and you need to build good communication. And that's how I run my business as a personal trainer. And that's how people run successful businesses as RDs, it's not about being the smartest person in the room. It's not about knowing everything. You'll learn more as you go on. It's just about caring about your clients and doing the right things day after day. And they don't teach you that in certifications. So that's what my book tries to do, and that's what my course tries to do. And I think it could benefit anybody. And I hope that people, regardless of your career, you take that into account if you're working in the health and fitness realm of some sort, it's really about caring about your clients. You'll learn down the road what niche you need to go to or the specificities of handing out a particular exercise regimens. It's do the right thing, care about your client, and all the rest will fall into place. Yeah, you're so right. It sounds so cheesy. Sometimes I say it like this, but the best thing you can bring to your business is yourself. That's like what sells, because not everyone but there's a lot of dietitians out there. We all get the same education, a lot of trainers out there who all know the same basics, but you have your own story, your own different experiences you can share. And so being able to bring that to the table is really valuable. So we will link all those different things down below. So anyone listening key and accesses if they're interested. Yeah, that's a wrap. Awesome. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being on. We will definitely keep you in our contacts for our resident personal trainers. We have a whole list now that we try to always refer to because we always have really big overarching questions and also nitty gritty stuff, too. So we'd love to have you back on. Awesome. Love to be back on every time. Thank you everyone for listening to another episode of The Up-Beet Dietitians podcast. So glad you were able to tune in and listen to all the wonderful things Steve had to say. Definitely go check out all the links you just talked about and if you do not jot them down, check out the description. Otherwise, we hope you have a wonderful day and we will see you next time. Yeah, see you next time, guys. Have a good one. Bye bye.
