Episode 22: What is HAES and What Does it Even Mean?
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Episode Transcription
Hannah
Hi, guys. Welcome back to this week's episode on The Up-Beet Dietitians podcast. Today we're going to be going over you were going to introduce I'm just like jumping right in. I got you today. We'll be discussing HAES, also known as health at every size, and this is really a very popular topic and movement that has come up very much more prevalently.
Emily:
Yes. Over the past, I'd say five years, I don't really have any recollection of it reaching farther out than that. At least we will discuss when it started, which was much longer than five years ago, but it really did pick up more speed and more attention, at least over the past five years. So kind of where did HAES start from? In 2003, the Association for Size, Diversity and Health saw a need for a new set of I don't know if I say guidelines, but we can just say guidelines or objective to better address a lot of issues that have been coming up, especially with health care around body size and weight. And in 2003, they decided to update their current standards. And they really wanted to develop much more a much more in depth version of HAES. So some of the issues they actually saw come up were health ism ableism, cultural imperialism and health implications based off of someone's socioeconomic status and weight stigma. So these are very much more hot topics that have been discussed much more, especially over the past one or two years, which is really important that we are discussing them in a healthcare setting as well as an overall societal setting, because these issues are very prevalent, unfortunately nowadays, but there's been much more light brought to them. So kind of the basic components of HAES consist of being respectful, having critical awareness and being compassionate with self care and will really dive deeper into how you can kind of apply these and be more aware of these and the different principles of HAES. And we have five different principles we'll be discussing.
Hannah:
Okay. I'll take over on the way inclusivity. This is probably in my experience with HAES, probably one of the biggest ones I've noticed as being one of their main efforts or things they kind of push. But what this kind of involves is accepting and respecting the very natural difference that all of us have in terms of the way our bodies look and getting rid of the idea that one body type is better than the other. So of course, we typically have been groomed to think that looking thinner is better. That's healthier. That's how you should look to be a healthy person. And HAES is trying to get rid of that mindset and sort of that dialogue, I guess, and trying to talk about or enforce health at every size so you can be in a larger body and still be a very healthy person.
Emily:
Yeah. Definitely.
Hannah:
Yeah. So they have a lot more focus on behaviors more so than how your body looks and unique sets of abilities and available resources rather than limiting someone to their size. An example would be, I guess, like, maybe like anorexia you have been kind of I keep saying groomed for some reason. We've kind of groomed, I guess, to think that people who struggle with anorexia are always in a thin body rest not true at all. You can struggle with any type of being disorder and being in any size of body. So that's another thing HAES is trying to incorporate. It's just health care for all sizes, whether it is typical or atypical or anything like that. I guess I don't think I'm giving them justice on this part, but that is kind of. The bottom line is just getting rid of the idea that one body size is better and treating all individuals the same in terms of health care.
Emily:
I think another really great example of when someone might be able to relate to this is anytime you go to the doctor. And this isn't to say that all doctors act this way. But I've heard it enough that it seems to be an unfortunate common occurrence where if you are of a smaller frame and you look healthier or meet the more like healthy standard that we've been kind of trained to think of, that they'll say like, oh, everything looks good, you look healthy. Even if you say that I don't really work out that often, or my eating habits are not very consistent, whereas someone who might be categorized is more overweight. But they are consistently working out and really trying to incorporate a more balanced diet into their life. But since their weight is something that providers might not believe is in a healthy range, weight loss will be recommended to them, even if it's not appropriate at the time or they are in a perfectly healthy body. It's just they're not how I guess like a lot of health care standards have fit them into being, if that makes sense.
Hannah:
Yeah. And I think that since this is kind of a new phenomenon, since most established doctors are probably the doctors for a long time, where that's kind of just how it's been all these years where society has said, you're in a smaller body, you're healthy. You're good to go that kind of thing. But hopefully now, as HAES is growing and this idea of treating everyone the same based on your size for health care purposes. Hopefully, doctors that are currently training to be doctors will start incorporating this more so than current providers just because current providers may not quite know they weren't quite trained that way. I'm sure they were trained that if you have an overweight or obese patient, you should probably encourage weight loss because they're probably at risk of all kinds of different diseases. So hopefully as again, more doctors start to newer doctors start to graduate and become doctors. Hopefully this is more of a prevalent thing that they kind of adopt and incorporate.
Emily:
Yeah, definitely. So our second principle, then, is the emphasis on health enhancement and kind of your general well being. And this is not only focusing on your physical health, which kind of has been the establishment or largest emphasis, I'd say, around whether someone's healthy is whether their physical health reflects that. But the emphasis with HAES is really looking into your mental health, how you're doing economically, socially, spiritually, emotionally, and all other needs of your general well being that health really isn't just your physical wellbeing, it's so much more than that, and they really want to support some, like, more health policies that put a larger emphasis on resources and information about these different aspects of your life, because all these different specs play just as big a part in your life than just your physical health. And we kind of all know that, but it's not recognized as much, which is really what HAES is also trying to emphasize with that principle.
Hannah:
Yeah, exactly. That was a good way to summarize it. Okay. Number three is their focus on eating for well being rather than just eating to control your weight. So the focus is taken away from weight and focus more on eating. So you're satisfied eating for pleasure, eating to meet your nutrition needs, getting enough of those vitamins and minerals and protein and carbs and all that kind of stuff, because if you are managing those different eating behaviors, I guess if you will, you probably will be typically healthy unless other things non food related occur to you, in which case that needs to be dealt with separately. But in terms of nutrition, if you are meeting those general behaviors, you probably will be a healthy person, whether you're in a smaller body or a larger body. So I even working in a weight loss clinic. I do try to take the focus away from the scale and focus so much more on these behaviors because focusing on the scale first of all, is just frustrating because it goes up and down all the time. And it's just such an external thing. You can't really control that much, whereas you have total control over what foods you choose. For the most part, I guess there are situations where you don't, but how food makes you feel you can start to focus more on eating when you're hungry. Stopping when you're satisfied that sort of thing. So I think that's a really good I really like that part of hAES. It's taking the focus away from weight and focusing more on those healthy behaviors.
Emily:
Yeah. Which is something that kind of your body tries to teach you growing up as a child. And then I feel like almost when you hit, like, adolescence, like you're a teenager that you're going to like College and in your adult life, society tells you what you should be feeling, and that really does kind of mess up your natural cues. And I'm sure you all have heard us talk about this so much and probably like, almost every episode where we mentioned that it really is important that eating is so much more than just food in your body. Even in that case, some people don't even view food as fuel, because for whatever reason. But it plays many roles. And we really hope that you not only appreciate food in that way, but are more aware of how often your life kind of revolves around food. It can help you understand if you do think of it that way. Like why you do struggle with, like, cravings or emotional eating. If you do start to realize that food is so much more to you personally than just a way to give your body energy to survive. If you recognize that it is more to you than that, you can kind of start to approach those different things and kind of manipulate your behaviors from there. And our next principle is kind of about respectful care. And this is very much linked to the first principle where we're trying to take away stigma around weight. But this is very much not only in health care. We mentioned health care a lot because we both work as dietitians in health care. So it's kind of a large component in our life, but especially this one, I think, can really be applied to the general public because this principal wants to help end weight discrimination. So this is about making assumptions about someone based off how they wait, treating someone who might weigh differently than you any lesser than you normally would than someone who might look like you. And this also can be I talked about this actually on Damian's podcast, which if you didn't listen to that, go listen to that on his page. We can link it somewhere. I don't know what I talked about also was like clothes shopping. There can be a lot of weight discrimination there when there isn't a wide range of sizes from small to large, like body frames. And that can be something really frustrating to deal with from either end, because trying on clothes is such a fun part of shopping, and it's really disheartening when you go into a store and your size is not there. Additionally, this principal tries to get rid of that weight stigma that we talked about and then also weight bias, where these all kind of work together in the sense that we're really trying to take away any types of judgment and assumptions people are making about people's weight by looking at them and also trying to take away any negative connotations that anyone might send their way or if there's lack of inclusivity. But Additionally, what I also really like about this principal, it does not only discusses weight, but it discusses how we should include more resources and information with our services around the understanding of how socioeconomic economic status, race, gender, sexual orientation, age and other identities will affect the weight stigma. And we need to be able to figure out how we can support, be supportive in these environments of people of all these different backgrounds and try to address any type of inequities we do come across. I feel like there's a lot of ambition there, and I'm here for it, and it really does start off with anyone can apply this to their life. This is not something that is just for health care providers. This is not just someone for anyone who's working with individuals who might want to deal with weight loss or personal training with changing their body or whatnot this is something we can apply to your life every day when you encounter anyone.
Hannah:
Yeah, I really like that one, too. It's very all inclusive, which is great in a lot of ways, I guess. But I like that it kind of starts with just acknowledging your bias. Like if you don't even know that you aren't being inclusive, HAES encourages you just to start to recognize where you could be better. And that's just like the first place to start because we don't even recognize that you aren't being inclusive. So that is a good place to start. It's kind of just thinking about how you might be able to do better in that area. All right. Last principle here. I love this one because I'm all about this. Talk about it all the time. But the last one is life enhancing movement. So again, we're not just eating to change our body. We're also not going to just move our bodies to change the way they look. So supports finding physical activity that allows people of all sizes, abilities, interests to engage in enjoyable movement to a degree that they choose. So not saying you have to do this type of exercise to look a certain way, you can really do whatever the heck you want. All movement is going to be good movement. In most cases, I am all about that. I say to almost every single person that I work with, that if you don't like what you're doing, you're not going to stick with it long term. But I guess in terms of HAES, this is more about allowing people of all sizes, like, encourage people of all sizes, whether they're a larger body or a smaller body to do what they enjoy to do, not what they feel like they have to do to change the way they look.
Emily:
Love that one. I don't really have much to add to that, because I think you covered all the bases. I really especially like when you added at the end where someone's size does not dictate what type of exercise or movement they should be doing. And also if we see an individual participating in whatever activity is, whether it's going to the gym, whether it's going for a run, whether it's water polo. That came to my head. I was like, whether it's pickle ball.
Hannah:
I've actually heard a lot about pickleball lately. I don't know why that's like a thing now.
Emily:
I think it's coming back in popularity, so we should not be judging people based off what types of movement they choose to participate in. And I say we'd rather just celebrate that they are. They found some type of movement that makes them happy.
Hannah:
Yeah, absolutely. Again, I'm using a personal experience here, like with my patients. I have such a hard time not convincing, but encouraging them to go to a gym, for example, because they've had bad experiences in the past. They've gone. They felt like they were being watched and judged and like, oh, why are they here? They obviously don't know what they're doing. They're super unhealthy. If they're there, they're trying to change that. They're trying to be a healthier person. So I always can say, oh, no, no one's looking at you, no one's judging you. But I guess it's just because I know I wouldn't do that. But I guess I can't speak for someone who would be in a larger body how that would feel. But that is kind of the goal of having HAES as more of an acknowledged thing is that people with larger bodies could go to the gym and they wouldn't have those feelings anymore, because that is so important that you can do what you enjoy doing if you enjoy going to the gym, even though you haven't gone before, or maybe you have gone for a long time. You just aren't allowed your body. It can be discouraging if you feel like people are judging you or even maybe even verbally tell you what they're thinking, which is even worse. But anyway, I don't know where I was going with that, but I think that it's good that we are having the conversation about this because that has been something I see a lot with my patients is they don't feel comfortable going to the gym because they just feel out of place there.
Emily:
Yeah. So those are kind of all the principles that HAES goes over, and I know that this is a very hot topic right now, and a lot of people have their opinions about it. So we wanted to kind of address some of the more controversial questions that people bring up when discussing HAES and the first of those being is HAES anti weight loss. And I don't know if we'll agree on this. Actually, I'm not entirely sure where my stance is, but honestly, I was going to say it's not anti weight loss, but for the intentions behind weight loss. If that makes sense. I think it's not pro weight loss in the sense to change yourself, to fit a certain body shape or to fit certain standards. So you're now considered healthy. But if an individual chooses to if they want to lose weight and it's for their own personal reasons, not because society is pressuring them, not because a health professional is pressuring them, not because their family or friends or significant others pressuring them, which that last one makes me most mad. But I think
Hannah:
I know what you mean. Yeah, because it's your personal decision, what you do with your body at the end of the day. And I think Hayes recognizes that. And as long as you're doing it for yourself and whatever reasons behind your motivation for that, I think it's fine. I don't think Hays, though, is like anyone who wants to lose weight has been brainwashed by society, which, honestly, we all have been brainwashed by society with weight loss. I'm like that's fair. So I look at your thoughts because I feel like you'll say something more eloquent than what I just said. Don't get your hopes up. But I actually really agree with what you just said. I think I kind of have the same view. I think it really depends on the specific person who promotes Hayes because there are some like I'm going to use an example of dietitian. There are some HAES dietitians who are very anti weight loss, and that makes me leery of saying that I'm a HAES dietitian because I am all about what you were just describing body autonomy. If you do want to change the way your body looks, that's okay. But I think I said this before a million times on here, which figure out kind of the why behind why you're doing that and kind of focus on that first. So yeah, I do think HAES as a whole isn't anti weight loss. It is about that body autonomy. But if you ask certain people who do really promote HAES, I don't think that they would say the same thing, but from what we've kind of just learned from, like, actual HAES itself, I think I would agree that they're not anti weight loss, but they also aren't promoting weight loss either. That's definitely not the goal, obviously, because sometimes when you do change your diet or your physical activity, I feel like weight loss can be a side effect of it. Almost like that might not have been the primary goal at the time, but it might have been just like something that ended up happening, right? It's kind of HAESand intuitive eating kind of go hand in hand, but it's very similar with intuitive eating. We said it before in our episode on that, but it's not a diet where you're trying to lose weight, but when you do have a better view around food and relationship with food, weight loss might occur if you have been, say, been eating for years and years and years and just treating food the wrong way. So if you do follow his approach, weight loss might happen. But that doesn't mean you are intentionally trying to lose weight, which is honestly the way to go, because it means that you're eating in a more healthful way. But like, you're not doing something just to strive for weight loss.
Emily:
Hopefully that provided you with some insight on something we helped answer your question. The next question, which we've kind of already discussed many times, is, can you really be healthy at any size? I think I mentioned this honestly, in episode two or three, where Healthy to me is all inclusive of all these different avenues and parts of your life, like the physical, the mental, the social, the emotional components, the spiritual components. So healthy to someone healthy to me might look different from healthy to someone else because you can be you're like, super low body fat percentage, huge muscle mass volume, muscle volume. I don't think that's the correct metric, but basically essentially very physically fit and toned as the kids like to say. But your mental health could be deteriorating and you could be unhinged in, like, a part I love when you say unhinged. I use unhinged all the time. Normally about myself. I say I'm unhinged one of my favorite words, so I don't know, would you consider that person healthy then if their physical health is looking very good, but mentally, they're falling apart. And then on the opposite spectrum, someone might have a higher body fat percentage, but they feel really good about themselves and they're thriving in life and they're happy. Then there are many components that go into health. And I think one of the biggest struggles, especially around discussing HAES. I would feel like people think that because you're emphasizing other portions of health, you're kind of putting down the others, which it really depends on where the person's at in life, what they have going on behind the scenes, how old they are, what their job situation is, if they're in school or not, all those different components really can affect what they have going on. So I would say you can be healthy at any size. It really is coming down to how that person is feeling and what different components because not every component of your life. I mean, I'm sure there's someone out there who has every component of life together, and they're just doing so well. And I'm so happy for them. But I don't think that's realistic for everyone to try to achieve. Or at least I don't know if I'd say try to achieve. You can try to achieve that. I don't think it's realistic for everyone to obtain at one point in time with everything going on.
Hannah:
Yeah, exactly. I really like how you said at the beginning. Like, healthy is such a broad term. It's very hard to look at a person and say, Yup, they're healthy. There's so much more to it than that. Physically, we have to look at lab values and I don't know million other things body fat percentage, but even that, it's so complicated. I can't even put it into words. So the word healthy is such a I know Emily hates it, and I really don't like it that much either. I try not to use it that much. I would think the words healthy and diet. I just try to steer clear of even though they aren't naughty words, they have become naughty words. They're very naughty. I like the word naughty, but I don't like calling those two words naughty. Okay, I'm getting over it. They get the point. I don't even know where I was going with that, but that makes it difficult to, I guess, even define Hayes. Well, no, never mind. Scratch that. I don't even know where I'm going with that anymore, but I do agree that depending on your own definition, you can be healthy at any size. I like to use the H. This is so sappy, but say more like happy at every size, just from the perspective of from those clinical components. We do know that people who are obese are at higher risk. Not that everyone who is in a larger body is going to get these diseases, but they are at higher risk of type two diabetes and high blood pressure and other cardiovascular diseases, back pain, bladder issues. There's a ton of comorbidities that do come along with sometimes obesity overweight that sort of thing. But that's not to say that every single person who struggles with those is going to have those. I'm having a hard time because I don't want to say the wrong thing because I do absolutely agree with almost everything HAES stands for. I just have seen a lot of different HAES people. They just take weight out of the conversation, which is good, but sometimes they neglect that weight can be dangerous, but it also isn't always dangerous. We have to really focus on the individual, what they need, specifically what their health is actually like, and not just make this blanket overview statement for each person because it's just not how it works. Every single person is so different that's my struggle with I'm not even going to stay with HAES because it's not HAES. I feel like HAES has really great principles and basic foundation guidelines, if you will. But with some people that enforce HAES, I do have an internal struggle with what they promote. Sometimes I feel like that can be pretty popular with any profession where there's many different extremes about different views. Like not all doctors have the same views about everything. Not all nurses have the same views about everything, like speech, language, pathologist. Actually, I don't know much about where they might differ, but I'm sure they don't all get along. Yeah, but I feel like that actually is very popular with a lot of professions, and I think not every dietitian is the same view.
Emily:
Absolutely. That's very apparent. And you kind of have to figure out which dietitians you really like to hear from and which of their beliefs you really can see yourself getting behind. And that's perfectly fine because I feel like one of the best episodes got podcast on the Brain. One of the best examples, I think, is with maybe like therapists, where a lot of them specialize in different things. But if you also look at their background or what types of beliefs they follow, one will be better for you than the other. And that's okay. If not all of the therapists can work for you, which is like the same with dietitians. That's okay. If not all dietitians speak to you.
Hannah
Yeah. We're all going to have different views. That's just like being human. I'm trying to say that I don't like people who are. No, that's definitely not the case. I could get along very well with someone like that. I could have patients that would or clients. I'd even refer to someone like that. But what I practice as a dietitian is not anti weight loss. And so those who have pull opposite views of mine is fine. But that is something I just have a hard time promoting. That's not what I do, I guess. No, I get it. That makes sense to me. As a new dietitian, I've been kind of like having a mental crisis about that. What's my stance? I don't have to have a stance. I can change my view for every single person and change the way I approach different situations. Yeah. Weight loss might be better for someone and another person. It might not be something we should ever discuss. Exactly. But that's like, very individual. Yeah. Like, I have some who love weighing themselves and washing their weight graph go down. I have others that I have told to throw the scale away because it's only causing more anxiety and stress. So it's just so different for every single person. I think that was really the bottom line of what I try to do as a dietitian is making it individual instead of just saying every single person has to follow these specific guidelines. So our last controversial question, then we got kind of on a tangent.
Emily:
That's okay. This is good discussion. And I'm sure people want to hear I feel like this is kind of one of the best parts of this episode, especially because there have been so many controversial takes on Hayes, and it's important that we discuss them, at least from our perspective.
Emily:
So the last controversial question is, is HAES backed by research because oftentimes at least a fat diet, this is not a diet. This is like a mindset like intuitive eating. Sometimes these diets can come out of nowhere, and sometimes they can be taken from other chronic conditions that are now applicable apparently to the general public. And a lot of the research behind HAES is there's a growing amount of research showing that Hayes can better the overall patient care process because there is so much more of an emphasis on these other components of health that aren't just weight and by removing weight, not removing weight, but also like setting it to the side and not putting it as the top contributor to a lot of issues. They've seen better results with patient care and treatment. And a lot of the research has shown that long term success of dieting is not effective because a lot of individuals will actually gain the weight back from these extreme diets within two years. Oftentimes people would be very happy they lost all that weight, but then it'll end up coming back to them because the dieting is not sustainable or realistic to maintain over a long term. Additionally, there's a lot of research around how the healthy body size range increases risk of disordered eating, which we've kind of talked about a little bit, but disordered eating is basically habits that are very much influenced by, I would say, your mental health aspect, where they can kind of distort your relationship with food in your body, and these can eventually lead to eating disorders. So by promoting these healthy body sizes, we are hurting the mental health of individuals and also potentially increasing the risk of disorder eating and eating disorders. And the last portion of research States that by doing a much better job of a valid I guess I kind of talked about this already a bit, but by doing a much better job of evaluating an individual's environment, we can provide much better patient care. And this is in the sense of looking at socioeconomic class, their access to food. If there's a food insecurity risk there and also access to educational resources, because health care is expensive and it and I were just talking about this before the episode started and to see all these different professionals, they can build up in medical bills and be very hard to see all these people and be very I guess there would be a lot of pushback because individuals might not be able to afford all these different resources, and therefore it would have a negative effect on their health status, which we do not want. So really, Hayes is backed by science in the sense that there is a need for more discussion around how dieting is not an effective way to maintain weight loss. And also there's so many other effects of dieting that we've already discussed in previous episodes, but basically can distort your body's natural cues. It can ruin your relationship with food in your body and so much more potentially due to eating disorders. And also by taking into account every aspect of an individual's life, we can better help someone. And also we need to be able to make sure that all these resources are affordable to them because you can offer resources. But if there are thousands of dollars, that might not be realistic for someone to incorporate into their life, yes,
Hannah:
I have nothing else to add to that. Honestly, that was really good way of putting all that. So yeah, I agree that it is backed by the research. My biggest thing with what you had said that I would kind of agree on is that the way we've been doing things, I guess kind of goes into our next point. That what we've been doing hasn't been working. Obviously, dieting doesn't work. We have seen time and time again that those who are often doing these crash bad diets, they often are just gaining weight back, feeling guilty going into that vicious cycle. That whole correlation with that, along with, like, disordered eating and eating disorders that's just not working. What we've been doing isn't working. So why not shift towards this different way of thinking, different way of providing care? I mean, why wouldn't we it's more inclusive. It honors so much more than just a person's weight. It brings so much more to the discussion. So no, I had said that I would not say I'm a HAES provider, but I'm a big supporter of HAES, and I think if we do start incorporating more of those principles that's going to do us, it's going to serve just us as a human race as a whole lot better than whatever we've been doing in the past. That clearly is not working. We have so many struggles with. Well, Emily mentioned health care already, but that's the whole other thing, but also struggles with weight and eating disorders. And almost any type of disease state has a very large population of people struggling with it in terms of food, food related diseases. So anyway, what we're doing isn't working. I think that if the research does show that this way of doing it could be better, then we should.
Emily:
Yeah. So that kind of wraps up today's HAES portion, and we hope you learned something. We provided some type of clarification around HAES. I feel like, as Hannah mentioned, there are many different types of HAES dietitians. I don't know if I'd label us as HAES dietitians, but I don't know. We do support everything about HAES. Yeah. And we really hope that you have a better understanding about maybe some of the controversies around HAES. And if you have any other questions, please let us know. We'd love to clarify on that. We'd love to look more into the research on that. If you like, we could bring on a HAES dietitian. We have to do some. I don't know if I say research into them, but it definitely is awesome to bring on other perspectives. Not to say that a HAES dietitian really will probably have much different to say than a lot of we talked about, but it's always interesting to hear someone else's perspective.
Hannah:
Yeah. So yeah, I think that's a good Segway into our bonus question. I had done enough ranting, although this one might cause even more ranting in a different. But anyway, okay, I'll lead into it. So our question today, and once again, I have no idea what your answer is going to be. So I'm very excited about this is a deep dish pizza, actually a casserole. So my answer is no. And I'm saying this because I looked up the definition before we started and a stew or it was a stew or maybe soup. I don't know, a soup, but it was basically some component of a product that is cooked in the oven in a large dish. And really, to me, no, casuals, I know have any types of crust. It's kind of to me, like a mixture of ingredients that normally is like, I think of like oven Bake where it rises.
Emily:
I think a deep dish pizza is more similar to a pie. Then I think it is a casserole because it has a very much more set form. It's not all these ingredients mixed together, whereas a casserole to me can have different layers. But doesn't it have a crust is not pizza.
Hannah:
I think for me, it's the crust argument you just provided. That makes me kind of agree. The first I would say yes. I think my final answer will be no, though, because it's just not a bunch of ingredients mixed together. It's like a very methodically prepared item. A pizza. I think the only similarity is that it's in a deep dish, a deep pan. That's the only reason it might even be considered a casserole. It has no other similar characteristics. So if that's all it takes for you to qualify as a casserole, then I guess
Hannah:
we're talking about mixing around stuff, I guess like dough. I don't like that. I don't like that. The banana breads and casserole, if that's the only way you're identified. Right. So obviously banana bread is not a casserole. So pizza is not a casserole. I don't know how I got to that conclusion, but I'm sticking with it. It reminded me of some geometry theory or, like, buy this property.
Emily:
The only property I remember is transitive. But I know this is definitely not transitive. So that's like, if this thing is this thing, then this thing is this thing and they're almost similar.
Hannah:
Like if we both get into the same piece of bread by the transitive, like lady and the Tramp style or what? Yeah, like that. That was a bad example. But you know what I'm talking about? Well, you just brought me to, like, a very weird place in my memory, like, discussing those properties. I do not want to be brought back to that. I'm sorry. Okay. I also despise geometry, so there might be a proof.
Emily:
Sorry. Go ahead. I was just saying, since a banana bread is not a casserole, a deep dish pizza, that's not transitive. It's something I'm thinking of chemistry when we had to, like, I know you like chemistry. So whatever I'm talking about probably isn't even true. There were, like, some similar situations where we had, like, different. I don't know what I'm saying. If I don't use my knowledge routinely, I'm just going to forget it, like, all that kind of stuff, anything. I went in high school that I have not applied in the last year. I don't remember no. Or, like, in College. It's gone, which is kind of scary because I spent a lot of money to go to Dietetics school. So a lot.
Hannah:
Yeah. And I only use, like, a certain amount of what I learned. Actually, I probably use hardly any, just like, the basics of nutrition and metabolism, because a lot of it is so emotional, which is the whole point of our podcast. Anyway, I keep being very rampagey today. Is that a word? I don't know, but we can say it is. I said some words that weren't words today. It's been a long day today, I guess. Like, bloopers, you guys should watch us try to start an episode until everyone has gone wrong, but let us know if the fish is a Castle. That's all I'm saying. Wait. Also. Oh, my gosh. I forgot to mention that I have Chicago credentials, so I feel like anything I'd say automatically gives me, like, three points. Yeah. I feel like you definitely have more poll in this argument than I do, because you are surrounded by deep fish pizza way more often than I am. So you should know better than I would.
Emily:
Yes. Deep dish. Try fighting that, guys. Yeah. If any Chicago ones come after me, let's fight. I highly doubt the end of Chicago is going to disagree with those from New York who are going to be like, oh, I will fight them even more, though, but I feel like that'll be another bonus question, which, like, the best style of pizza, which I can get away from beat dish.
Hannah:
Okay. I was going to say, I know your answer.
Emily:
Is that just like, no, I'll take out my Chicago bias for a little bit. Okay, that's good. Cool. Okay, now we can wrap up.
Hannah
Okay on it. Thank you guys for listening this episode. We hope you learn something. Let us know if you have any questions about HAES, or if we do know any really good HAES dietitians we can refer you to, and we will see you next time.
Emily:
Yeah. Have a good rest of your week. Bye.
