Episode 45: Fatphobia is Alive and Well
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Episode Transcription
Participant #1:
Hi, everyone. Emily here. I wanted to quickly jump in here and kind of Hannah and I did not prep an intro for today because we're at least this episode because you listened to last week's episode, you know that we kind of got carried away and we were only going to talk about thin privilege in both fat phobia and kind of one episode. But us being us, we got a little carried away recorded for a lot longer than we anticipated. So we decided after that, we'd cut these episodes into are we essentially split the episode into two. So if you have not already listened to our episode about the privilege, go check out that one. It was last week. Otherwise, today we're going to get into kind of fat phobia, the issues around fat phobia and. Yeah, stuff like that. So thanks for tuning in again and bearing with us and all that and enjoy the episode second half. So welcome to the second half of the episode. The second two thirds, because that was just the intro. We've already been going for like 40 minutes. I know. Take your snack break. Take your water break. I mean, you could still be eating the podcast. I listen to the host. They do take snack breaks, like twice an episode and they go to the bathroom jingle play. Okay. I was like, what happens during and the commercials will play in the. Yeah, that's kind of fun. I know. It's cute. Let's go to a break. We'll be right back. Yeah, take your time. Before we get into the second half of today's episode. And this is something I think I'm much more not today. I'm not passionate about, like, issues with them privilege and how people how society emphasizes that. But fatphobia is something that is just really grinds my gears. It's so prevalent when you're on social media regularly, you see this so much it's insane. I always tell Hannah I have no chill, but people have absolutely no chill. I've had so many people just say, like, I'm proud to be fat phobic. And I'm like, yes, do you want a gold star? Do you want me to applaud for you? Congratulations. You're a terrible person. I will 100% admit ten years ago, I probably had some internal eyes. Like underlining phobia,
Participant #1:
we were taught certain things, but you reflected. But I would never say it was protebobic. I would never say that I was like, no, whatever, but let's just get into it. I already know we're going to talk about a lot with this. So fat phobia is essentially the fear and hatred of fat bodies. And this isn't like you're scared of fat people. It is like the fear of gaining weight and being in a larger body. That is what it means. And Mary Hillston and actually an assistant professor at Kent State University, said something really and I wanted to quote her on this. She said Bath Ovia encompasses a whole bunch of things, namely weight bias and weight stigma, such as the idea that we see pills of higher body weight as lazy, unintelligent, or disgusting. And Additionally, she mentioned that there's this perception that people who are fat just sit around all day and eat. And then also kind of further, she goes into talking about how fat POPIA perpetuates these negative stereotypes and that it could lead to discrimination against people with higher body weight. Yes. I literally got a DM yesterday from someone and I forget how it came up. But she was people always send me these great DMs, like with their life story, saying how they've been treated and they're finally getting out of diet culture. I just love it. But I forget why she brought it up or how she brought it up. But she's saying exactly that because she is in a larger body. Everyone assumes that she's just like sitting around all day eating Twinkies and pizza where she's like, no, I actually have a pretty bad appetite. I don't actually eat that much. I hear that one all the time. Can you wait a minute? I hear that daily. They're like, yeah, I actually don't really eat at all. No. Because there's a lot that goes into it. Yes, exactly. It's not just calories out. So many people think we've talked about this so many times. Yes. I just posted a YouTube video. It's up right now. If you're listening, when this comes out on the whole calorie deficit thing, I can't handle it. We'll link it one more person. Calories are not the only thing that matters. No, that's why assuming that someone who is in a larger body, that they're just eating a ton of calories 24/7 is not actually what's happening. It's maddening. It makes me so mad. I'm infuriated right now. The first bullet point. Okay. I know. I wanted to get into one other quote, though, that I really like. So many people had all these really good things to say about that, Bobby. And I just want to give them the kudos. Yes. So Bergie Tovar I apologize if I say your name incorrectly. They are an author and actually a host of another podcast, The Rebel Leaders Club. I've never heard of that. But very cool. Check them out. But they said that fat phobia is a form of bigotry and a form of discrimination that says that people of higher weight are inferior physically, intellectually, morally, and health wise. I just feel like that sums up that phobia. Yes.
Participant #1:
It's so bad and it's so prevalent. It is everywhere. And people are just so more bold about it. Yes.
Participant #1:
Not everybody size, but any level of a relatively larger body is going to get some kind of hate, which is even more frustrating. Like even someone who is insanely healthy but just happens to okay. What I'm thinking of, for example, is like I am on Fit, talked a lot like just fitness people because I'm a personal trainer. I have a lot of people in my I feel like I'd be scared to be there. It can go either way. It can be very body positive or it can be very fatphobic. But I see a lot of weightlifters who are female, who are like Jacked really great shape. Besides the way their body looks like, they actually are just very healthy people. But they weigh like 200 £220 and they mentioned their weight and everyone freaks out. Yes, this has been a trend recently where women who are over £200, they're showing what their body looks like. Yes, I like the trend, but people freak out. Yes. Because it's such a dumb number. These women can bench press £300. Like you think that just because their number on the scale of over 200 means they're not healthy. No. There is a TikTok or I'm forgetting her name. I think it's Alona or Alania or something. But she's Olympian. She's a rugby Olympian. Went and competed at the Summer Olympics. Like the highest level of athleticism, made the team, went and performed, and she weighs. I think she said £205 recently and she showed some of the DM she's got in atrocious. They're like, you should take off some of that weight. Like, you look so like you're carrying so much weight you could afford to lose a couple of pounds. She's an Olympic athlete. She plays rugby. She's not meant to weigh £115. Like she'd be a terrible rugby player if she did. Yeah,
Participant #1:
like those £200 could crush you. And I hope that she does crush you should probably throw them. Yeah, I hope like they wouldn't stand a chance against her and comment this. Like, I don't want to stereotype not going to say anything to me. Never mind. But they have no place to say anything. I was having a similar thought. I was like, you can never be in her place. The Olympics never would consider you. Yes, exactly.
Participant #1:
You were in JV basketball. This is in Olympic rugby player. That's what I was going to say. You weren't even considered for collegiate sports. These are three tops. Like Neo Dassy. I think you can go after an Olympian or these people who can lift twice as much as you or like for the sole fact that her body is £200, not even because of anything like any other reason. That's the only reason you don't like her. Well, this isn't about fat phobia, but I'm sure you saw my comments, Emily, about how I'm a bad dietitian because I'm not like Jacked. I actually have yours. It's on that one with Gobbly goof when he went after me for 24 hours. How is it on that one? Why would I trust you? You're just dangly whatever, right? Two things. I show my head up in most of my TikTok. So you're basing that off of the way my face looks. So I don't have, like, a chiseled monster jaw that is just built of muscle. Second of all, I wear, like, baggy clothing most of the time. Like, you have no idea what my body looks like. And I don't often show it for that reason, because people make a song about you. They believe that I'm a bad dietitian for the sole fact of this on my head. I don't have the body to be giving nutrition advice. Insane. Like, I went to school for five years and registered dietitian and a certified personal trainer because of how we look. How you look? You're discredited income. I'm a woman, but we won't even get into that. Did you see my recent pickup? Yes. I was hoping it got more traction. I'm like it needs to. I'm like this. Maybe I'll do edit. I'll do edit. I was like this. I am willing to be the person to talk about this. Well, have you seen the whole nursing cap salary thing recently? Same thing. Because of the women dominated field. I'm literally like, or why are we not capping CEOs? Why are we not capping the billionaires? They don't need that much. Jeffrey Bezos. He's not listening to this podcast. Jeffrey Bezos, you don't need to make like, I think it was 37,000 over like 17 minutes. That's what he makes. Well, if he was a nurse, there would be no Catholic nursing or dietitian that also made that. Yeah, we won't bring gender into this right now, even though I just don't. The whole nursing thing, though, is like, oh, they'll probably come Friday snacks campus at 250.
Participant #1:
Like, you thought you were making a lot of jokes on you.
Participant #1:
Okay. Anyway, those are great quotes that really sent me into a spiral already. Yeah. There is a history of body weight and perception of wealth in class hundreds of years ago. History is by worst subject. So correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but way back in the day, body weight was seen as a representation. Like, having a representation of weight was seen as positive. It meant, like, you could afford nice foods. You had a lot of money to afford wine. It's depicted all the time in a lot of art, I know. Or like, a lot of the women are of larger bodies. Or they're, like, holding, like, a wine jealous. Or like, using grapes. Yeah, I can picture that. It used to be depicted as, like, higher weight, more wealthy because you had more access to fancy foods. Come to Common Day 2022, 21st century. The narrative has switched. Now thin is considered upper class. And the reason why you might be wondering why is how did it switch? Because and this is something that I want you to think about a lot. Now you're talking to the people. You take this in and you think about it. You listen to me. No, because this is something that I think when I heard it the first time, like a couple of months ago, it just blew my mind. But then it now is associated with upper class because it signifies that you have the spare time to think about what you eat. It signifies you have the time to prepare food, you have the time to exercise and you have the funds to buy fresh whole. The quotes are not processed. I'm getting rid of that fresh whole foods. Yes. This is not something that's thought about a lot. Having the accessibility part of it is something I know we both talk about a lot on social media. People don't have access to fresh groceries every week. That can be really expensive. People don't have access to all these just like even grocery shop. No. I have agents who have to base their grocery trip on when they get their paycheck because they need the gas to get to the grocery store. Yes. They can't afford to buy all the fancy products to make sure they're eating the rainbow every day and that they're having the highest quality meat or the highest quality protein. They also don't always have the time. That's something I see a lot of people don't have the time because they're working multiple jobs. And I believe that families oh, yeah. It's not an excuse. For some it is. But for most people, time is not. We do not all have the same 24 hours days. I say that all the time. I mentioned that in my Calorie Deficit video, like the 19 year old Gym Bros. Oh, you have time to go to the gym for an hour? No, not me. But I have five kids and I work two jobs as a single mom. Like, no, I don't know. It's very different. And time is a huge resource that people don't think about. Also, money is always this whole like, don't talk about money thing. Money plays a huge part. I will talk about money all day and every day you can buy happiness. Yeah, we won't get into that in place, especially in it from a nutrition standpoint. Not having to worry about how much you're buying, not having to worry about feeding your family, not having to worry about if you're even going to have time to Cook or like, do you have to stop by somewhere to pick up something? These are things that not everyone has. But since there is this association with them, people having I feel like it's always they call it like the It girl, the It girl on social media. Or like they wake up early, they do their intentions, they have like their yoga, they do their green juice, they go to their workout class and then they go shower and then they go make breakfast. And by that time, it's noon. And I'm like, you have a job, but their job is being a Nick girl. That is their job. They get paid to influence. They get brand deals and stuff like that, which is not to say they're bad people. I would love to. No, I would love that job to wake up and work out. I know that being a consultant is very tough, like a story. I would love that. But not everyone has the same accessibility to those types of foods. Not everyone has that type of time to spend, like half their day working out. Not everyone wants to. Some people really like working a nine to five and having their family they get to hang out with when they get home. Yeah. Not everyone wants to be an It girl who's spending 2 hours in the gym and moisturizing their entire body for 2 hours after they come home. Like, not everyone wants that life. And so we cannot, like the ideal or like what everyone has to aspire to. I thought you were going to say something else. No, I was just saying. Yeah, it is frustrating. We haven't gone to examples of. Okay, examples of dangers. Let's get to it. Examples. Okay, first one, we talk about this in the BMI episode. But this first example is when your doctor tells you that weight loss will solve any of your problems. They just dismiss your cough or your sore throat that you have because if you just lost weight, you wouldn't have any of these issues. I hear this one all the time. All the time. And I see it on TikTok, too. But even personally with my patients, I hear this all the time. That's how they get into our door. Weight management is because their doctor made them come simply because they saw that their BMI was or whatever number. And they just don't listen to them sometimes. No, they just like, yeah, they're completely tell them lose weight. And the advice this gets me so mad. The advice that they tell them for weight loss, first of all, shouldn't even be talked about. Like, they have a specialist, me or my entire clinic they can refer to. But instead, this patient comes to get an antibiotic or whatever. They're told to lose weight. And to do that, they're told to do Weight Watchers do have to be really eat 100 calories. The doctors try to give the patient's weight loss advice. And it's always terrible because these primary care doctors have to know everything about every disease ever, essentially to be a primary care family doctor. And so, of course, they have terrible weight loss advice. It's not their specialty or nutrition in general. We don't even get into that how doctors don't go to school for nutrition. But it happens all the time, too. I have to undo it. But they don't believe me. The dietitian because the doctor is a higher authority. And so the doctor always knows better than the dietitian who works the way management. That's a new problem. It's not even a fat will be a problem. That's just me hating healthcare in general. Yeah, it is. Infuriating like, I had one yesterday who was like, not yesterday because Monday last week, who do Weight Watchers, what are your thoughts on? The doctor told me I should do this. And I was like, no, you're seeing a dietitian. Like, why would you ever go to new Weight Watchers? Yeah.
Participant #1:
The doctor would see Weight Watchers as being an easy fix to this patient's weight problem, which is the biggest problem they have according to that doctor. And so it's just an easy fix. They can move on to the next patient. And that makes patients for this last time too, not want to go to the doctor because they know that it'll get lectured about their weight the whole time. Yeah. Which Luckily I've seen that a lot of current like Med students or newer doctors have kind of more of an open mind around weight, which that is good to see because I feel like we always have to preface this in every single episode we ever talk about weight. We're not telling you that there are risks with both sides of the weight spectrum. But also we know as dietitians having higher body fat percentage comes with some risk. But that's not equivalent to weight always. No, it's not. Like we said last time, the BMI episode, you could be a BMI of 30, but be a bodybuilder who has like 2% body fat. So weight is not always the indicator. Yeah, that's okay. Next example of fat phobia. So this one's good. This one's so good, it makes me it's so bad. But it's such a good point. It made me think of this because a certain podcast we both listen to reminded me of this, that past drama thing we were talking about. Like, oh yes, that is why I thought about this one. But also. Yeah. So an example of Sant phobia is when anyone healthcare professional or any random person tells someone, any individual of any size not to do something, even if it's in their best interest and will better their overall well being. They are telling someone not to do this because they might end up gaining weight, even if they might be happier if they do this thing, even if their mental health might improve, even if they have something, if they have a mental health thing going on, they might gain some weight. Yes. Telling someone not to do something only because it might cause some gain weight is fat. Let's give the example. We won't maybe name names, but the example I think we can get. Okay, if you guys have heard of F factor on that, we have to do a whole series on that one. But the example could be perhaps telling someone not to take an antidepressant because it has a side effect of weight gain, even though that antidepressant could literally so positively impact their mental health. Yes. Save their lives. But because it might cause weight gain. Yeah. It's found upon. And that happens a lot. I hear that one a lot, too. Patients won't want to take any psych meds because of the side effects of waking, but their mental health is garbage. The entire visits are crying.
Participant #1:
Yes. And we've talked about this. Mental health is just as important as physical health. And I don't even know what episode we talked about in we're like, trying to remember what episode. I don't remember. There are too many. Oh, my gosh. We talk about a lot of similar or common themes. But even if someone is in the best physical state of their life, they're, like, so muscular in their body fat, so low, their cholesterol within normal limits, like their blood sugar is stabilized. But they are having I keep thinking I'm like, I need to put trigger warranties for these things, like trigger warrant suicide. So skip ahead a little bit. But they could be in the best physical shape of their life and they could be on the brink of committing suicide. Yes. And. But people will be like, no, at least they're thin. Yeah. They must be doing so well because they look so well put together. How could they want to suicide if they have hashtag body goals
Participant #1:
or it's like kind of along with this. This isn't like the whole medication side of it as much. But if someone is doing a diet and they're being, quote, unquote successful with it and then being told they should keep doing that diet just because they are, quote, unquote successful and losing weight, but their mental health is garbage. Their relationship with food is garbage. That one I see in my comments all the time. Just yesterday, I posted a video about how obsessively counting calories is rarely helpful for people. The comments were terrible. It always was the wrong side of TikTok. I was like, if it's on Instagram, they're normally supportive. Instagram, my Instagram people. I love you guys. They're so nice. Tik Tok my community is great. But the problem with Tik Tok is it goes into the feed of anybody attract a lot of hate. But anyway, I was saying how obsessively counting your calories is a very negative thing for most people. And the comments are like, yeah, but it helped me lose weight. So that's why I do it. Yeah. Maybe you lost weight, but your mental health is trash. Yeah. And now you potentially could have a terrible relationship with your body. A terrible relationship with food for the rest of your life. Exactly. But you lost weight. Or like, in that same video, I mentioned how weighing yourself daily is often not healthy because that is also very obsessive. But everyone's like, well, I have to know my weight or else I don't know what foods I'm going to choose that day. I'm like, that's a big red flag. I just use it as, like, a data point. I just have to know, what does that tell you? The number on the skill shouldn't affect anything in your daily life. It affects my mood, makes me upset. What does Brendan say? It's just a machine. What does he call it? He calls the scale, like, some kind of, like, metal machine or something. He calls, like, robots or something. Oh, robot, yes. So don't trust the robots. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Imagine if a weight, like, a scale company, like, purposely skewed their, like, know how bad that be if they made you £5 heavier? Well, this is another thing. Patients come all the time and they'll come at the end of the day where they've had three meals and not pooped all day and they'll be like, oh, what the heck. I was £6 less this morning on my home scale. It's like, Your skill is broken. Your skill is broken. I'm like, first of all, I don't give a shit. Like, I don't even want to weigh you, but I have to because the doctor said so. I have to put it in your chart. But second of all, it is. 04:00 P.m.. You've eaten all day, you've drank all day. You probably haven't poop since this morning. Like, of course you've got £6 of extra whatever sitting on your body. Yeah, but every time I'm like, I don't have time for that conversation. Every single time I'm like, okay, great, I'll take note of that. It's infuriating. So that's actually already happening with scales. They're all very different, but also like, anyway, no, we're getting off track. Okay. The next example of fat phobia is being constantly. Why? I went over this constantly bullied in person, online for their size and even discriminated against, like, this one is like, not even. It's not even everywhere food, it's existing. Yes. Like, Drew Afualo, she made a video. There's this one creator who she's just like a larger body and her husband, I think he does something with weightlifting. And she gets so much hate. She gets so much hate because she's like, they're like, you should leave her. And like, oh, my gosh, you're putting up with this person and a lot meaner things than what? I'm just saying. I'm saying the nice ones, like, the nicer ones of the things being said. And Luckily, Drew has taken a lot of those people down, but she can't defend them all.
Participant #1:
They're just in love. That's what they post. They post about how they're in love and they're like, super cute and it does nothing. I see this joke all the time online. People are like, do you even like women?
Participant #1:
I rarely see women, but we're not going to make overarching generalizations, but it's the insecure men. You know, if this does not apply to you because you've never done these things. So you don't have to worry about it. But to the insecure men out there probably don't listen to our podcast because they probably don't. They would hate our podcast. They probably don't think we know anything. They're like, stupid girl diet, women dietitians. But these insecure men. And I'm just specifically thinking of this example. But they'll see a man, like, in a fitter, perceiving body with a larger woman, and they'll be like, why did you do that to yourself? You are stooping to her level. Like, that could be way out of his League. You don't even know. You don't even deserve her. And why do you feel the need? He doesn't care what you think. I promise you, he does not care. Like, he's not going to pick you. He's not going to be your friend. He's not going to invite you over to hang out. He's not going to give you his exercise Regiment or whatever. He's not going to give you. I don't even know what you want from him. What do you want from him? I don't get it right. And even if Drew did lose weight to satisfy people's needs, how would that benefit them? They would get nothing from that. Like, it's through the same relationship with the same boyfriend girlfriend, doing whatever thing I said. That's weird. It was a different girl I was talking about that was in a larger body. But Drew also gets a ton of hate. Drew also gets so much hate. It was a different girl, but, like, same exact thing. They both work out a ton. They work out so much. And she like, deadlifts. Like, no, she hit thrust, like 300 something pounds. And I'm like, you could. She never would. But she's so strong. Yes. And it's just so annoying to me. It's so annoying to me. How the automatic insult for any time, any. Well, you're fat. Literally every time. Did I tell you once how I got your fat hate comment? And it made no sense to me. I showed my face. Yeah, that's the thing, too. Like, it was mine. And I was like, I've gotten so many my shoulders up, I was like, you do not want to get in a fight with me because I will make you cry. But why is that? It's because they have no other argument. No, like you have to say something means. Yeah, it's just so many people do a therapy. That is my overarching recommendation for everyone. If you find yourself being miserable and having to make other people miserable, going to therapy, you're allowed to be sad and upset and angry sometimes. Like taking on others is a whole other ballgame. Yeah. Your emotions are completely valid. There's probably a reason that you're being so mean and don't take it out on others who did nothing to you. Right. Who are just, like posting on the internet because they like to post on the Internet. Yeah, that's the thing, too. It's like, some accounts, they don't ask for it. No one deserves to get those comments, but I post very controversial things, so I can kind of expect some terrible comments. Like, if I was just, like, posting, like, I don't know if I was in a larger body and just posting, like, my outfit that day, there's no need. It's not controversial at all. And the comments are awful. It's always like giving unsolicited health advice or being like, maybe. Or one of the ones that makes me most mad is people are like, you should wear clothes that, like, better fit their shape or something. Yes. Fits your body type better or better if you were like, something like that. And I'm like, just let people live their lives,
Participant #1:
probably. Who cares? Yeah. If that person wants to wear some lower eye, skinny jeans, let them wear some lower eyes skinny jeans. Like, chill out. Yeah. It makes me upset. But then again, I know there's a lot of nice people on. There are nice people on it's. Just Unfortunately, I feel like there's just a lot of people that post the hate are much more confident in what they post. And the nice people just like the video and move on with their life, because that's what you should do. I think we're exposed to it a lot because we talk about this kind of stuff, and it's very controversial. It shouldn't be, but it is. Yeah. Let's move on to the next one. I put this one on, and I want to hear your opinion because I feel like this is a controversial opinion, and I don't even know if I'm just being sensitive or, like, what it is. So examples of phobia. Pitch Perfect. You probably have heard of it at some point. It's a trilogy about Acapella women's group. Great. There's a character called Fat Amy, and that always calling her Fat Amy made me so uncomfortable. It made me so uncomfortable. I'm like, I've never heard of a character called, like, Thin Lucy Thin Molly. I've never heard of that. But, like, Fat Amy, that was her name. Why couldn't we just call her Amy? Right. I want to hear your opinion on this because, as you know, I'm very opinionated, and I can't tell if I'm just being overly sensitive about it or overly hyper aware about it or it's actually weird. I think that the reason I feel uncomfortable has changed. When I heard that name in the past, I was uncomfortable, but I think it's because I thought that that was bad. And so back then, I hated that full name of that Amy, because I was like, oh, it's bringing attention to a really bad thing. I don't like conflict. That's just, like, not even talk about it. But now I don't like it because it's like, discriminating her for being in a bigger body, even though she could be living a very healthy life and all the things you just talked about. And so I think the reason why that makes them uncomfortable is important to note. I think my reasons. I've always not liked it either. I think the reason why it has adjusted as I've changed my views on all this. Yeah, that makes sense. I would never call any of my. I know. It's, like fictional. It's, like, not real. I know that. Oh, you're from Hannah. No, but there are young girls. I say girls because those tend to be more susceptible. They tend to be more susceptible to body image issues and stuff like, not to say the guys aren't their mental health in men and, like, boys is not talked to us about, especially with eating disorders and stuff like that. But right now I'm focusing on, like, that. Amy, there are probably young girls that watch that, and they're like, I don't know if they were trying to, like, I don't know what the purpose was. It was in the era where, like, I mean, it's always been, like, things best, but like, that. I feel like they were like fat phobic jokes in the Pitch Perfect movies. I didn't watch them frequently because after the first one, kind of the jokes were a bit, like, too edgy for my preference. Yeah. But it was just, like, weird to me because I want to see a character. Then let's see medium size Susie. We're going to say all these things like, let's start naming everyone. Let's just call them by their Pant sizes. Why don't we get size 14 Kathy out here and see what she can offer? That's how modeling is, right? Like, you have to fit in a certain size. We should do it at modeling episode. That's what we have an experience in modeling. At least I don't. Do you. Okay. I was like, do you have, like, a secret life of a model I don't know about? We never talked about. I love watching modeling drama videos. I love that. That's how I get my education, my exposure. But, yeah, I feel like it's just, like, unnecessary overall to, like, even put that label there. Yes. Okay. Our last example, even though there's thousands more we haven't even thought of or put on here. This one I see a lot, too, as someone who does have pediatric patients. Okay. Just the whole idea of putting a kid on a diet, that's the problem. That's it. I hate seeing pediatric patients because I work in weight management, and it's expected of me to put that patient on, like, a diet, give them a calorie goal, tell them what to do. No, I can't. No, I feel like it's ethically wrong. I actually had scratched that because that's going to communicate what patient I'm talking about. I've had experiences where I've had conversations with parents about wanting to put they always ask me, are you familiar with the latest? They don't say fad diets, but I translate it in my head to fad diets. Do you have experience with doing Calorie County? Do you experience with things? I'm like, yes, I do. But your child is in one of the most important, like, from age zero. Once you come of that womb to, like 22, I would say you're a huge period like, that's a huge growth period that is setting you up for essentially the rest of your life. And what's going to happen with your body? You're supposed to learn and gather your base. Yeah. And also teenagers in adolescents are in some highest risk for eating disorder. I will never put a child on a restrictive diet. The biggest thing I would do is be like, let's eat more vegetables on fruit or less increase physical activity. Let's try to get some movement, things like that that are just like patience. Yeah, you can do it. That's applicable for the rest of your life. It's just typically just trying to include more variety and movement. But no, oftentimes the parents have a history of disordered eating, and they are projecting onto their child, always the parents. I'll see you both and we can work. Oh, it's so bad. It's basically a fight between the dietitian, the kid, and the parent. Like, everyone's job. That is another thing that I don't think we've ever talked about, but we do not learn how to. The only reason I have mediation skills is because I was in RA. We do not have mediation skills with parents and their children so bad. There are no, like, anything is in the realm. No. I've had a parent or a kid, like, cuss out their parent right in front of me. Just, like, start yelling at them and like, cussing at them and you're just like, just eat some veggies, please. I don't know what to do in the situation. Oh, it's so bad. I do not like seeing kids. I like seeing kids.
Participant #1:
I'm also not a parent, and so I don't know what kids like. So I'm Super awkward with, like, six year olds. I'm like, what phase of life are you in? Are you making dinners yet? Where are we? I didn't tell you this. The people who I find is funny. I don't even think they are in elementary school yet. For some, like, they had food sensitivities. I have a dietitian voice. I have a lot of also dietitian lingo. I speak in a very specific way when I'm talking to patients. That is not how I normally speak. It's like almost like customer service voice, but it's like, transitioned into professional dietitian voice. And I say absolutely a lot. It's just like something with active learn, like active listening. I've
Participant #1:
integrated. I'm very challenged right there, but it's something I just include a lot in how I talk. And halfway through the session, the kids, like, you say absolutely so much. I was just, like, sitting there, like, they're so honest they're brutal. Luckily, it wasn't mean. I was like, shell shock. Also, like asking, we're going off track, but we're talking about it. The way you ask questions is so different. I can't say, like, bowel movements. I can't say things like harmonious fatigue, can't say really things like that appetite. That's kind of hard to even tell. Mental health. How's your mental health? Yeah. And I'm like, how are your stress levels? If I ask, like, a five year old, did you break any cranks today? Look at that. Yeah, it's just wild. The difference. It makes me appreciate pediatric specialties. Me too. I speak in a certain way. It takes us a special person. I have a completely different dietitian voice. I closed that camera door, and I'm like a totally different person. Yeah. The closest I came to realizing it was I actually gave some like, I did some education with my family, but I don't talk to them in my dietitian voice. But I used the same phrasing because I was doing, like, similar education. And they're like, why do you sound so, like, dead and unenthusiastic? I was like, I can't summon that voice with you. Oh, my gosh, I feel so peppy. It's disgusting. I'm exhausted. When I get home, I'm talking like this for, like, eight, 9 hours. Oh, it's so exhausting. And I'm a cheerleader all day long, which I love to do, but it is a very exhausting. Yeah. Okay. Once again, I feel like we're so blocked. I know. We've been reporting forever. That was the last example we have. So now we're going to get into the dangers of that phobia. We've gone through examples. Emily, I feel like you had a very special plan going over this first one. Yes. So issues with Sarphobia. It is more intense towards women and maybe, like, Emily, you're just saying men are awful. No, I got the evidence. I'm sure you've heard of the dad Bot. And it is like, people like, I don't even know what to check, which I don't really hear this as often anymore. But people are like, would you prefer someone, like, who was ripped? Or would you prefer someone with a dead body and it's a guy who is a little fluffier isn't like that's. It they're just, like, a little bigger, but it's very kind of normalized. And in some, like, oftentimes people are like, oh, yeah, I prefer dad bots. No, women cannot have the same thing. I know you've heard that podcast of the guy who said his wife has to get in shape after having the kid. We have not talked about that. I have so many opinions about men who make expectations for their wives. He's not even married. He's probably living in his mom's house. No, he is. No, they confirmed. He was like, they did that episode in his mom's living room or something like that. Oh, he's not married. Okay, okay. No, but he's living with his mom he's not good in the wife. That's the way he's going to treat her. No. This goes back to what we're saying before. When you say things like this, do you expect people to be attracted to you? Like flocking it towards you? Like the only motivator he carry my rock when I have a baby, making sure that I'm getting back into the gym. Yeah. There's this one girl, I don't know her name, but she totally ruins these people, like talking about are you supporting her? Are you also taking care of the kid? Are you giving her the time and space? A lot of the accessibility things we've talked about, like having time, whatever it is. But no, the perceptions of what a woman should look like. The ideal body type is always changing, but currently it's like super thin waist, breast size. I don't know where it's at right now. I can't give you up that one alter names, but then like, also like wide hips or like wider hips, but like tone body. Like everything has to be small, but it's like you still have to be curvy. But if you have I've seen so many videos where they're not even that. And they're not even big girls. And the women aren't big, just normal. Not even normal, but just like mid sized women. Yeah, that's a good term to call it, like mid sized. And they get hated on for how they look. And they're like, maybe you should skip a meal because they're not fixing. No, because they're not looking like a Victoria supermodel who a lot of his genetics. A lot of it is they have access to top personal trainers. A lot of it is like they have access and time to those like, more nutrient dense foods. They don't have a lot of them have sort of eating. Yeah. A lot of them have really bad relationships with food. But there is a huge double standard, essentially. That's like what it is.
Participant #1:
All people can experience fatphobia. Everyone can experience it. Yeah. But there is a discrepancy. Yes. We could not talk about this topic without bringing up gender or race. Those folks play a role
Participant #1:
I'm glad we talked about because I feel like people don't talk about these things. It's like, you know, people are always like, don't bring up politics and don't bring up religion. It's like people don't want to talk about race. Well, guess what? This is fume me. If you've made it this far along, you know, we will talk about the racial inequities in health care and life. That's something I've been learning along the way, too. There's been this whole movement. I don't know how to put it in the right words, like the anti diet movement and how I'm going to put this in the wrong way. I don't even know if I want to say it. I'm just going to not give it justice. And then we could take it out okay. It's what your Rd BFF is all about right now. How like white women are like dominating the anti diet movement, but not even talking about the discrepancy or the problems with race and the reason why we even have a diet culture to begin with. Yes. And this is something that we can feel free to take this out. But it's something that I'm more familiar with. And I feel like it's because I am a partial person of color. But there are specific individuals or specific type of individuals that experience some type of discrimination. But then they also have privilege. And white women is one of those where in the totem pole race, white people are at the top. But then in the total of gender and sex, men are at the top. So kind of the people that fall between these, they're kind of in two different things are like black men and white women. Those are like the two more common ones I've seen a lot of discussions about. And it is a real issue because anti nice space is dominated by white women. But I have yet to see any talk about the racial issues in Dietetics or die culture which needs to be addressed so badly. Yes, I guess I kind of count because I'm half white. But I see all these like, dietitians of color talk about it. But they're not. They don't get as many followers because they're not. I don't know what perceived as like the ideal, and I don't even know if that's right at all. What I just said from a sense of like a health guru, they might not be is I guess I don't even know if it's that maybe it's just like white privilege. It might just be white privilege. Just be it. It could be as simple as that. They just get more followers just because they have white privilege. And that's something that isn't just in Dietetics. It's on social media where I follow a bunch of POC creators. So many of them aren't verified and they have millions of followers. I've seen a lot of mediocre people, me and white people that just exist don't really do much. And they gain millions of followers by doing sometimes nothing, sometimes literally just like lip singing. We've talked about this just like standing there and being and this is something I put in here, just standing there and being conventionally attractive. I would say this if I was conventionally super hot. Can you imagine the followers? You'd have so many followers. Not to say it's not like I'm not, but if you don't fit the cookie cutter, conventionally attractive appearance, which is like thin white blonde girl, I feel like that's like sometimes brunettes. Sometimes I throw brunettes. It ain't the ginger, I'll tell you that. We are not the standard. We're a special breed. But I feel like we started talking about this next bullet point. But actually the reason we talk about all these things is because higher weight people of color face both stigmatization around their weight and what they look like based off their race. And this is seen in the wage gap. This is seen in medical discrimination and so many aspects of life. It doesn't be talked about. It just like, no happens and then like, no one wants to have a discussion about it or like, people do have discussions about it and people don't want to talk about it because everyone's, like, split in the middle and like, everyone, this is something too, not even necessarily to this point, but it proves this point. People are so stuck in their ways. If someone comments on my Tik Tok something that is just like, not what I agree with or it's just straight up wrong. It's not even that. It's my opinion. It's just in factual. Like canola oil is bad or whatever. If you try to convince them otherwise, they will never change their mind. That's why it's not ever worth talking to someone on. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that saved me a lot of time. As though when I texted you about it never changed our mind. No. And then why are we not like, it's okay to be wrong. That's how we grow my opinions. Ten years ago, probably some would be seen as like, problematic in some senses. We should talk about this. We may have viewed that phobia completely different ten years ago. Yeah. This podcast episode would not be like how it was now. It would be so different. I think even like two years ago, my views were probably completely different than they are now before I became a dietitian. Once I became a dietitian, I completely flipped my views around. It was kind of a weird turn of events. Like all of a sudden it's just so different when you're like, in it. I think that's it like when you're in College becoming a dietitian. It's not talked about at all. No. They don't talk about fat phobia. They don't talk about the racial inequities. They don't talk about like, diet culture, disordered eating that much. We talked about the clinical side of disordered eating and eating disorders and what to do to make sure, like refeeding syndrome. We don't talk about who's at risk of that. Why were they at risk of that? Does their past family trauma cause that? How do we treat that? Should they see a therapist? We don't learn any of that. And so you don't see it until you're in it. Yeah. And now that we're in it, it's like, what do we do about it Besides trying to raise awareness, talk about it and be a good one. Of the things I will note I do not want to do is I do not want to rewrite the Die set as curriculum. That is not an ambition of mine because I was like, that'd be something that'd be good if I was teaching like dietech students. Yeah. But the problem is that the Academy is just white women who don't see the problem, and so it's going to always stay the same. I looked at the candidates, I was like,
Participant #1:
the thing is, I have no desire to be on that board or anything like that. Exactly. But I know we need more representation. The people who understand this stuff and want to make the change, like, what the change to happen don't want that kind of position because it's just not in our wheelhouse. No, I'd much rather just be, like, talking on a podcast about these things that's like, what you're good at. Maybe it wouldn't even be beneficial for you to serve in that position. Yeah, but it would just be great if someone would be. I don't know. I don't know why it happens the way it happens. I don't know why it's always the same general group of people who are. I'm hoping that as, like, the types of dietitians and the generations of dietitian changes, we see some more representation, some more men, too. Even where I work, I just think having some men would be so great.
Participant #1:
We just need diversity in every aspect. Yeah. Okay. We got to keep going. Oh, my gosh. Our longest ones, it's like episode two all over again. I didn't realize we talked so much about this, but we don't want to. We got really good at being quick and to the point.
Participant #1:
The next danger with that phobia is that weight stigma is associated with higher levels of anxiety. I just skipped something. That's okay, we'll get to that.
Participant #1:
We're going to talk about this. I'm thinking it's like a two part episode. Maybe. Yeah, let's cut it in half and maybe we'll just do two bonus questions. Or should we just like, let's just end up in privilege and then we can go back and add. Okay, perfect. Yeah. I think this should definitely be two things. The intro is going to be a little weird, or we'll add a thing at the end in our outdoor will be like, we realize we recorded this for so long, so we're making it two parts. The next danger is pointing out that someone put on a couple of pounds or saying, like, maybe you shouldn't be eating. That doesn't help anyone. No, we keep saying this. What do you get from telling someone what they should or should be doing with their body? Maybe they're a good intention. Like, maybe you're genuinely concerned about their health, but trust us. Diet culture and today's society with the paphobia intricate into itself, they know they already probably feel awful about themselves already. Like, you don't have to add on top of it. And even if they are happy with themselves, why are you trying to say something? You're implying that something is wrong with their weight or something is wrong with the things that they're eating and they need to change that is not in your wheelhouse. No. The only ones should be coming on their body. It shouldn't even be the healthcare providers. There's a spectrum of how much we should even be saying it's like dieticians. I would never tell someone, oh, you shouldn't be eating brownies because you gain weight. But especially like, if I was like a friend, I would never tell Emily that even as a healthcare provider, even then you shouldn't even be saying things like that. No. And the only real way I could see this conversation around that is maybe like few high lipid levels or there's like a lot of lab values that are off that could be associated with high body fat composition. Be like, oh, maybe we should refer you to a dietitian. And we can try incorporating more lifestyle changes to lower these lot values or change these things by not just explicitly saying you need to lose weight. Cause it's not just like, maybe they'll lose fat. No. Maybe they'll lose muscle mass. We don't want that. Then they're going to get sarcopenia. That's going to be like an issue. Like sarcopenia. Yeah. Just don't ever comment on people's bodies. That's the bottom line here. No, it does not affect you in any way. No. Nothing good ever comes out of it. Like Emily said, they probably know. They probably have either self deprecating thoughts or feelings of guilt after what they're eating or they're confident and they know that they're allowed. In my instance, if I'm eating a meal that's not the most nutritious. I know that most of the time I usually do. And so if I have pizza and you don't think that's something I should be having, I don't give an F if you don't like me eating pizza because I'm confident in my choices. And that's only one thing that you saw me eating. Yeah. They either already feel bad about themselves and you're not helping or it doesn't matter because they're allowed to eat that it's not going to affect them anyway.
Participant #1:
Okay. Yes. Okay, let's do the last one. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Weight stigma is associated with higher levels of anxiety, depression, poor body image, and poor self esteem. Kind of like with that last one a little bit. People who have been told their whole life that their body is bad or wrong, or maybe they don't fit into planes, seats or benches or whatever that experience baptopia in whatever way. Or weight stigma, whatever way that can lead to higher levels of anxiety, depression, for body image, all that their mental health isn't good.
Participant #1:
I don't know. It's shiny. It's infuriating. My blood is boiling today. Yeah. And it's so frustrating to try to tell people why. I know we talked about this on the opposite side of the spectrum, like complementing weight loss. That messed me up. But it's like this. Don't comment. People's bodies say you can compliment them in other ways. I love your energy being around you makes me happy. I love your confidence. And that's not even like make sure it doesn't come off passive aggressive, though, because I know that's the whole thing. Your energy is so good today. The back handed compliments. I wish I had your confidence to wear that. Don't say things like that. No. Genuine. But there's just ways we can go about this. Let's get into that. Yeah, let's get into this. Is technically also, Hannah, I'm thinking we should upload thin privilege and then Faf up you the next week because they go so close to the other. We'll just kind of move it around. But let's talk about ways we can fight this is fatphobia. I just added that on because it was a combo. But how does tight fat phobia number one? And this also is very closely associated with diet culture and how we combat that. Drop the diet talk. Yeah. We don't need to constantly be talking about what diet we're going on. We don't need to constantly be talking about diet starts on Monday. We don't need to talk to talking about kind of how we're going to compensate for what we just ate, how we're going to earn our food, exercise, how we're going to burn off brunch. All those things we don't need to talk about. That's so boring. And also, no one's having a good time talking about that. No. Talk about more important things. What are your dreams? What did you do today that made you happy? What are you doing for yourself that makes you happy? How did that brunch make you feel? Like was it really good? Probably. Did you get bond with Pmosas? Cool. You should have because they're amazing. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Another way to fight that phobia is this one. You guys probably caught the hand. You didn't get it. I'm going to say it very clearly. So listen up. Don't comment on other people's bodies. It doesn't help anybody. They've been in that body their whole life. They're well aware of what it looks like, what it's capable of and what it's doing. Whatever you have to say does not matter or affect that body. Like whatever. Okay. That's that one. You guys already knew that. Yeah. Next one kind of we already talked about. But keep that unsolicited health advice to yourself. For me, it's the calorie deficit thing right now. Like every single video really. The word calorie deficit will never be the same to me. I know it's like a metabolic processes or whatever, but now it's like a diet basically. Calorie deficit is a new diet for me and I just cannot handle it. Everyone just says to everybody on TikTok, just being a calorie deficit. Just being a calorie deficit. Like no, I have a whole 15 minutes video. A lot of terrible advice. I won't make this so you can go listen to there. But help anybody. There's a million reasons why that is not going to help somebody. No. Any help advice you have is also probably wrong because you're not the thing or a doctor. You're not a health professional like you're an accountant in your 50s who never once actually learned about nutrition. You have no right to be making health advice. And I actually mean accountant. Not the slang for what an accountant. Sometimes either one of those, though, shouldn't be talking about. Yeah.
Participant #1:
Okay. Next one is to speak up. If you can. Just like, Emily and I are very passionately talking about this today. At whatever level, you can talk about it. If you run for President, that's great. If you have your own little podcast, die. If the President talks about diet culture, I get my vote. I'm like, oh, my gosh, yes, let's take down the diet industry. It should be a pack for me. Yeah. But something that maybe if you don't want to be President or maybe if you don't want to make a podcast, something else you can do. I actually was talking to one of my friends and she was saying how she was talking. Two of her friends were like, super into Keto and they were doing keto for whatever reason. And their third friend of the friend group was not very strongly opinionated. She was kind of like, go with whatever or whatnot. And she was like talking to my friend and she was like, maybe I'll do Keto because these other two are doing it and they're like loving it and super vocal about it. And my friend was actually like, because she listening to our podcast, she was like, did you know Keto does this and this and this? Don't do that for whatever reason. I think it was weight loss. Like, don't do it for a weight loss goal. Essentially. It can be easily something like that. Like just speaking up in conversations with your friends, families. This is how we get the conversation going. I think we've talked about this, but I feel good about because dietitians can talk about all day. But if no one else outside dietitians is going to talk about it, nothing's going to get done. It's like as soon as whoever it is starts bringing up more like even confronting it in everyday conversation, that's when change is going to happen. Yeah. Because everyone knows that we hate it. But now it's like a matter of getting that all going
Participant #1:
or not. Last 1 second. Last one. I've kind of mentioned some personal ways I've done this, but audit your life and check yourself. Because like I said two years ago, I had probably done some things that were fat phobic. And back then I didn't realize that they were. I hadn't even thought about how that phobia, how it affected others. I was just worried about myself and wherever life I was living and hadn't thought about how anyone else is struggling. Yeah. And so again, you're not wrong if you've never thought of that it's just maybe you've never had to worry about it. Yeah. And now is like a good time to reflect on and kind of reflect on thin privilege. Reflect on that phobia. How can I better myself around this to make a more inclusive kind of safe environment for others? Yeah, exactly. The last point of how we can fight fat phobia is don't assume that fat people are failed in people. I love that one.
Participant #1:
I don't know if I need to add anything to it. I feel like it just speaks like if you see someone in a larger body, that does not mean that they like our failure of a person.
Participant #1:
Yes. I just have been thinking of TikTok all I could think about in this episode because I'm just like. So that wrenched into these things. I see them all the time. Yeah, it is scary time on there. That's a really good one. I really like that one. Doesn't need to be even continuing to be explained that. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. Let you know it was originally recorded as one, but here we are 2 hours later. Yeah. We hope you enjoyed part two of our thin privileged, fat phobia series. Yeah. Are we doing a bonus question? I feel like we should do a bonus question. I don't know. Too intense. Get an easier one. This one I could rank for, like another 30 minutes.
Participant #1:
They're so bad.
Participant #1:
Okay, bonus questions. Let's do the starburst one that Andy, just, like, freaking ignored, went haywire about. Yeah. Okay. Best starburst flavor. That one should be easy. Okay, time for the bonus question. Nice. Easy one today. Nice and simple. Since we probably just like, if you're. I'm exhausted talking about all that. I just feel so fired up. So anyway, final or bonus question is what is the best starburst flavor? This one can't be that controversial. There's only four of them. I'm only sure I have the controversial. Oh, boy. Okay. Is it yellow? It's yellow. When you said controversial, I knew it was yellow. That's the worst one. I love yellow star. I have to say I love loving stuff. So it's good. It's so good to me. Next one is red. After that, where do you put pink? Is that third or four? Third. I hate Orange. That's why I love eating starbursts with other people. No one was yellow. And I'm like, I'll take them all. I don't know. I don't eat a lot of lemon thing. It's just they're. So I want to say they're not refreshing. Kind of like juicy a little bit. Yeah. I like the citrus. Well, you probably could have assumed this, but Ross like lemon and like, the yellow ones. I'm realizing that everyone I'm friends with has similarities to my husband. I think I just know who I like and know who my friends. And then I married one of them. That was the dude. So if I was into women, I probably would have married one of my lady friends because that's what I'm into, I guess. Mine is pink. I have the stereotypical, like the pink is the best. Yeah, it is good. It's so good. But I like the lemon. I like them all. Besides the red. Honestly, for me, Reds a lot. Obviously. I eat the Reds, but they're just not. I also don't like Orange flavored things. I love Orange. That's for me problem. Yeah, it is. It's pink strawberry. I don't even know what place that is. And I'm pretty sure red is cherry. I got Ross love servers and like chewy Scooby things. So I got him from the UK before, of course. Yeah, you do, don't you? I got a new one from the UK and they had like current some from the UK. The podcast, please tell me how to say that. A couple of other flavors that were just not really like very typical American. They're pretty good. I got on Amazon or something, I think. Oh, cool. I never think to order food off Amazon. I think I was really desperate for a gift and so I was looking for random candy. I'm the worst gift giver in the world. I hate giving gifts. I never know what to give. I also hate receiving gifts because I don't like giving gifts and then I feel guilty. So if you want to give me a gift, just spend time with me. That's why quality time is my love language. Yeah, that could be a bonus question. What's your love language? I might not down. Yeah. Now you guys all know mine, so that will be a new one.
Participant #1:
Well, have you ever heard there's, like ways you give love and there's like ways to receive love so we can talk about that because mine are very different. No, I'll think about that now. I wonder how I do love. I feel like it's probably the same that I want to receive it. I don't know. I'll think about that for that upset. Cool. Yeah. Do a quiz on it or something. Yes, I should. Cool. Also, I'll ask you some more gun. Okay. This needs to be done. Yeah. We need to end. We've held you against your will long enough. We'll let you be free to do whatever it is you want to do now with your life. Hopefully fight fatphobia. Join the fight.
Participant #1:
Okay. Thank you guys so much for listening to part two of this episode. It ends up being a two parter and we will see you guys next week. Yeah. Have a good rest of your day. Bye.
