Episode 41: Does Sugar Feed Cancer? with Mickala Parsley, MS, RD, LD
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Episode Transcription
Participant #1:
Hello, everyone. Today on The Upbeat Dietitians podcast we are joined with a very special guest. Michaela Parsley is a registered dietitian that works with patients undergoing radiation and chemotherapy. She works and sure, patients are well, nourished to stay strong during cancer treatment. And also she provides insight to many of the nutrition myths surrounding cancer. Because of her work in oncology. She has a passion for disease prevention and she runs a blog and social media accounts providing nutrition tips and easy recipes. Mikayla is also a big fan of Aldi, just like us and she loves to share her Aldi grocery hauls with her followers. So great episode. Let's get into it. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Dietitians Podcast. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Pod. Today we are joined by a very special guest, a fellow dietitian. And to me, a fellow Indiana liver. Is that the right word? Not liver. That was not the right word. Okay. You see how this is going to go already? Anyway, we are joined by a wonderful Indiana native, Mikaela Parsley. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me tonight. Of course. So Kayla is an oncology dietitian, which means that she specializes in cancer prevention and treatment. And so we're really going to pick her brain on those topics today. But before we get into that, kind of walk us through a typical day in the life, what you do for work, walk us through how you became a dietitian, what you do for fun, kind of load of questions. So answer however you wish, but just give us a little insight to who you are. All right. Well, you said I'm an Indiana native, which I'm actually not. I'm from St. Louis, Missouri. But I went to College at Allstate. So that's how I became how I moved here to Indiana. My husband we moved to the Indianapolis area for my Dietetic internship, and I love it here. So we have a home here now. We live here, work here. Like Hannah said earlier, I am an oncology dietitian. I work in a cancer center here in the Indianapolis area. I work with patients undergoing active treatment. So both radiation and chemotherapy. So that's like my full time traditional job. And then kind of in my free time, I run some social media channels and a blog that's really mostly just like general health advice. But I do like to kind of tailor it to disease prevention just because I do work in oncology they estimate that two thirds of cancer diagnoses could be prevented through diet and lifestyle changes. So it's very important to me to kind of get that message out there to the general public to kind of empower them and let them know that we do have control over our health and wealth and happiness. So that's just a little bit about my work life. But other than that, I have two dogs. They're both rescue dogs. And I like to travel and hike and go camping. Very cool. Very good summary of everything going on. And I actually did not know that two thirds of cancers could be prevented through dietary lifestyle changes. So that is very cool to know. And I hope everyone takes that. I hope that resonates with everyone because I think it affects everyone and it's something that cancer. I feel like people don't know if they can really do more with it. So that's really cool. I'm sure we'll ask you more today. So let's start first start off with what are the general guidelines around cancer prevention and what are the most unique and remarkable ones you'd want to point out? Yeah. So like I said, I love talking prevention, specifically cancer prevention. Of course, being an oncology dietician two organizations that play a major role in cancer research and putting out guidelines and kind of interpreting the research for us as just the general population is the American Institute for Cancer Research and then the World Cancer Research Fund, and those two organizations teamed up together and looked at all of the research and have put out general guidelines for cancer prevention. Ten of those. So I'll kind of like go over ten real briefly and then maybe touch on some more ones that I think are dive deeper into some of those that are a little bit more nutrition focused. They're all nutrition focused, but ones that I think are really important for us to touch on today. So just to run through them real quick, the ten tips. First, to be a healthy weight a lot of times. And I know in today's world and on social media, we're talking about helping at every size and trying to get away from diet culture. I know you guys are really big on that and I agree. But also a lot of research and scientific evidence has shown that those who do have a higher body fat percentage do tend to have a higher risk for cancer. So just something to be mindful of. Number two is to be physically active when we're active, that can improve immune system, reduce those body fat stores to kind of help with that and being healthy weight. Number three, eating a diet rich in plants. So I know plant based diets are super popular right now, which is awesome because it's getting people to think outside of the box of the traditional meat and potatoes and meals that I feel like a lot of generations have grown up with. So that's a big one that I like to touch on a little bit more in just a second. Limiting processed foods and fast foods, of course, I think a lot of us pretty general information. We're all familiar with limiting red meats and process meats. I think this one's a little bit more well known too. But something I just want to touch on real quick is as far as the red meats go, there is a higher link to cancer, specifically GI cancers with red meat consumption. So these organizations, the American Institute of Cancer Research, has recommended limiting that. So what does limiting mean? That's trying to stay less than twelve to 18oz a week of red meat. If you think about it, that's still a decent amount. You can have a burger or something every once in a while, just being mindful of how often try not to have red meat every single day. The process needs that is something that they definitely recommend trying to reduce as much as possible just because there is so much of a connection to cancer and certain types of cancers. And processed meats are your lunch meats, your bacon, your hot dogs, those types of things. Again, every once in a while you're not going to have cancer just because you ate a hot dog, but really being mindful of that and trying to stick to fresh meats when possible. The next number six is limiting sugar sweetened drinks. So if we're drinking soda, Starbucks Frappuccinos, all of these sugary beverages all day long, that's going to really add up and excess calories throughout the day, which could lead to excessive body fat and a higher body weight too. So again, being mindful of what we're drinking, going with that, limiting alcohol. Alcohol is considered a carcinogen. I know that in the past there have been recommendations, one drink for women, two drinks for men a day to try and stick around that. But when you're looking at in terms of cancer, we definitely want to avoid as much as possible. So these oncology organizations are always going to be paying to reduce that as much as possible or get rid of it if you can I feel like we live in a really good time where it's almost a cool thing to not drink alcohol. We're recording this right now in January. A lot of people like to do dry January. A lot of bars that are newer in the Indianapolis area are having cocktails and a lot of just fun alcohol free beverages. I know a lot of breweries are coming out with non alcoholic options. So it's a really exciting time to try and implement that and still be social and meet up with friends without feeling that pressure to always have an alcoholic drink. So that's pretty cool. The 8th tip for cancer prevention is to not use supplements for cancer prevention. Of course, I think most of us have heard that antioxidants are good for us, and so some would infer that. Okay, well, I'm going to go take a bunch of vitamin C or vitamin E, vitamin A, all of these vitamins and minerals to make sure I'm preventing disease. But studies have actually linked certain high dose vitamins with cancer development, specifically vitamin E and vitamin A. So try to be mindful that we're not doing these excessive amounts of supplements. Number nine, of course, isn't going to pertain to everyone, but trying to breastfeed, if we are able to. When we're breastfeeding, we actually have less, especially the length of time that we're breastfeeding, we are exposed to less estrogen because during that time, we're not having as much estrogen released in the body. Also, it's helping to increase cell death and making sure that we're killing off damaged cells in our body rapidly produces new cells in the breast tissue during that time. So that's pretty cool and interesting. But of course, it's only going to apply to you if you have children, you're a woman. Of course, if you can also breastfeed. I know not everyone can. And then number ten is following all of these guidelines. After a cancer diagnosis, after we're done treating and even during cancer treatment, that some of these can be implemented, that's important, too. I like to tell my patients on treatment, you have a lot going on. Don't stress so much about all of these things. There's other things we can be focusing on during treatment that's more important. But when we're done with treatment, we want to prevent recurrence. Right. You don't have to come back here and look at all this. So trying to really focus on tips. I love the approach you take to all this moderation is key because I feel like people will see those tips sometimes, like on a handout or a flyer or whatever, and they will be like, okay, so I could never have processed meat again. I could never have red meat again. I should never drink alcohol. I should never have a processed food. And it's not that way. Like you said, you don't just like eat a potato chip and then get cancer. It's so much more complex than that that's what I love about dietitians. I know it's very biased for me to say, but I feel like most of us do practice that whole moderation thing instead of the all anything mindset, which as we know, Emily and I always talk about this, it's just never effective. And it's not even going to get you to your goals, even if it is cancer prevention. It sounds like it's not even going to be worth it, I would say, to have that mindset of super duper restrictions. So I love to hear all those different. Yeah. And we have to meet patients in the middle. Right. I know all of us live in the Midwest and not to like stereotype, but people more so in the Midwest are very set in certain eating practices that aren't very in line with all ten of these tips or lifestyle practices. And so we have to do what we can and slowly implement all these changes and build on that over time versus trying to go crazy and do all these. And like you said, never eat potato chips again. Never eat a hot dog again. I mean, even me as a cancer dietitian who is very in tune with all these things, if I'm at a barbecue in the summer and there's a hot dog, I'm going to eat a hot dog and enjoy that. But also, I don't eat hot dogs every single day. I'm doing all these other things. So it's just a bigger picture for sure to focus on. Exactly. That's something I try to stress, too, because patients and clients don't always think of it that way. We think of the nitty gritty stuff. Yeah. The one that I wanted to just go into a little bit deeper is the recommendation to have a diet rich in whole grains, fruit, vegetables and beans, all those plant foods. I think that, of course, people are hearing this information, especially in today's society, to eat more plants. But I don't think people really know why it's important to eat these plants, especially in terms of disease prevention. When I'm talking with patients, they'll tell me a list of three vegetables that they like and that they eat consistently. But when I kind of talk a little bit more with them about fruit vegetables being whole grains and why it prevents disease or why it's good for us, then they're more likely to kind of broaden their Horizons and try new things. So we always encourage variety in our diet because certain plant foods are all plant foods contain different nutrients, especially you can tell right away when you look at something because all of these fruits and vegetables have different colors. And all of these colors actually are linked to different nutrients within that plant and the plants by the time we eat them, they're not a living organism anymore, but they once were, and they had systems in place to protect them in nature. And they have things called phytochemicals, which is translated to plant chemicals. And these are the plants natural way of protecting themselves in nature and elements from certain diseases and those phytochemicals when we consume them. Plenty of research and studies have shown that that thus helped us prevent disease. And all of these different colors offer different things. So I think most people look at an Orange and know that there's vitamin C in there, and vitamin C is an antioxidant. It helps fight free radicals in the body. That could cause eventually down the road of yeast, but also things like tomatoes contain lycopene lycopene. People who consume more lycopene throughout their lifetime seem to have a reduced risk of prostate cancer. Our purple and red foods are great, and you'll kind of know this because of wine, red wine, but they contain a phytochemical called resveratrol, which resveratrol actually has been shown to help reduce estrogen production within the body. So all of these different nutrients from all these different plants, they offer different mechanisms or protections for us as a human. So it's really important that we're just eating fruits, such as whole grains, beans, but also that we're constantly trying to try new fruit, veggies, beans, whole grains, and try and switch it up frequently so that we're constantly getting in all of these different nutrients that can do different things for our bodies. So that's a big one. And especially here in the Midwest, I feel like we're so used to growing up with the same fruits and vegetables. We're not in a tropical environment. Different countries have different fruits and vegetables, but trying to try new things and really get creative with the diet. And I think that's what I like about the plant based craze right now, because if you eat more plant based and you want to have fun and like the meals, you have to use a lot more plants than you ever did before if you were more of a meat eater. So just something to think about for those that are trying to eat a little bit healthier in terms of disease prevention, I love that because I feel like people hear us dietitians say just eat more veggies. But maybe we don't really know why we say that. That was a really good explanation of why it is so important to eat not only veggies in general, but all different types and have a wide variety. I think this is a good segue kind of into our controversial question of the episode. And we want to hear your opinion and your expertise on the statement of sugar feeds into cancer. Yes. Unfortunately, when patients are diagnosed with cancer, they are flooded with information. A lot of times information is from Google, friends and family that know other people with cancer. And a lot of times it always comes back to what they should be doing with their diet because right. We just talked about how important diet is for cancer prevention. So of course, diet is going to be super important once they have cancer. And something that comes up a lot is that sugar feeds cancer. And this is a myth that I'm constantly busting. Like, I literally need that sugar does not feed cancer tattooed to my forehead at this point. But where does this come from? Because we got to realize obviously it's coming from somewhere if it's so readily talked about in common in today's society. Well, glucose, which is sugar carbohydrate, is the preferred source of energy for all cells in the body. So this is why when people go keto and they're cutting out carbohydrates, our glucose will feel really tired. They can't really think as well because we normally use all this glucose for ourselves to have energy and to fuel its best. And cancer cells, when they're rapidly dividing and the tumors are growing within the body, they're using much more energy than they ever did before that healthy cells use. They're using so much more nutrition. And their preferred source of energy is glucose, too, just like a healthy cell. So a lot of times people will say, well, if we cut out glucose from the diet for cutting up sugar, then we can slow the cancer growth, which of course, we all want to do to help slow the spread and possibly help treat and help with treatment to do its job. But when you cut out glucose from the diet completely, cancer is ruthless. This is how I describe it to all my patients. Your cancer is going to continue to grow no matter what. And what doesn't get talked about is that all cells and cancer cells don't just use glucose to grow. They're also using protein and fat to continue to grow and use that as energy. And they have mechanisms in place to turn protein and fat into glucose, to be used for energy and to continue to grow. So when patients are on treatment, there's a big focus on making sure that they're staying well, nourished, and not losing weight to support their body throughout treatment. And when patients are super focused on this and reducing sugar from their diet, cutting out glucose, they can also be harming their healthy cells. They could be making it even more difficult for them throughout treatment, which is already a really stressful time to be focusing on all these foods that they can't eat, which could also lead to further weight loss. But something that I always talk about is I'm not saying you can go and eat cake and cookies all day long, and that's fine and not going to impact your health and your cancer, because if we're eating high sugar foods all day long, our blood sugar is going to be spiked. Our insulin level is going to be spiked, which some cancer cells do have receptors on them that insulin attaches to. And insulin can help kind of stimulate growth with some of those specific cells. So there's like a roundabout way where, of course, to support our body. We want to be mindful of sugar and not eating it all day long. But it's not like if you drink a milkshake, you're growing your cancer cells as we speak. And then another thing that I like to touch on is, of course, if we have a high sugar diet. I touched on this earlier when I was talking about those sugary beverages. If we're having sugar all day long, we're likely having excessive calories from those sugar sources since they can add up quickly. And that can lead to a higher body fat percentage, which has been linked to many types of cancer. So does sugar feed cancer directly know, but there are things to be mindful of around that space of sugar and glucose and health that can impact cancer. So it's kind of just a subject that you really have to dive deeper into and understand all of it before you can just say sugar feet cancer. Yeah. It's not always as black and white. I feel like nutrition is often made to be. Yeah. And I mainly work with patients when they're undergoing treatment. And I think even if you've never known someone personally who's gone through cancer treatment, specifically chemo, that affects us more. So I feel like you've seen it on TV or, you know, a little bit. But of course, chemo causes a lot of nausea, upset stomach. A lot of times patients are really struggling to eat and cold liquids like milkshakes or oral nutrition supplements. A lot of people are familiar with insure boost Fairlight shakes are becoming more popular. But those are like the only things patients can sometimes consume. And so if you tell them that sugar feeds cancer and they're going to take that to heart and they're going to avoid all sources of sugar, then they're going to have, like, nothing left on many days where that's the only thing they can eat. And that's going to do more harm to their health during treatment than it would be for them to just consume that. And also, if you're taking that sugar feed cancer to the extreme as well, and you're not consuming fruit because, of course, fruit has sugar. We just talked about how important some of those vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients are that come from fruit that help prevent cancer and disease, you're going to be missing out on those nutrients as well. All right. Well, on the other side of the spectrum, now that we kind of know the correlation between sugar and cancer, we'd love to get into the correlation between artificial sweeteners and cancer because I feel like that is one that I hear all the time because I work in weight management. And so those can be a really good tool to help decrease Thoric intake. And when I mentioned that my clients or patients are like, but don't those lead to cancer things like stevia, sucralose, ACK, all those different things. So we would love to hear your perspective on that. If artificial sweeteners have any correlation to cancer. So obviously when these organizations like the American Institute of Cancer Research are putting out that they don't want you to have sugary beverages, sugar sweetened beverages, the latter would be to have low sugar or maybe diet beverages. And I know that in society, just like the sugar feed cancer myth, there's a lot of information out there about artificial sweeteners and their connection to cancer. This all began in the 1970s when Saccharin was studied in rats and they noticed that the rats, mice. But whatever rodents, the rodents that contain Saccharin did develop bladder cancer. So that's where that first stems from. And so it was deemed right away as a carcinogen. The FDA did not approve it for use and consumption, but then it was studied further in mechanistic studies, which means that it was then studied like humans and what the effect would be on a human consuming. That because we are not rodents. Right. That correlation does not occur, that the Saccharine does not develop tumors within humans. So then it was of course studied much more than just one study, but it was eventually reversed and being saved by the FDA to be put into food products and consumed by Americans. So pretty much since that happened, there's been so many more sugar substitutes that have came onto the market, but it is always going to be tested and deemed safe by the FDA before it's put out for human consumption. Aspartame, which is like one of the more common sweeteners nowadays. That's like what in Diet Coke that I know handle of. There was one study that came out of a lab by Italian researchers that linked Aspartame to more like blood cancers like leukemia, and they found a connection between those blood cancer developments. And again, the rodents that consume the Aspartame. Well, researchers went and were looking at their data and actually found many laws within their research and it was pretty much revoked. And then all of a sudden since then pretty much have deemed it safe. The FDA feels comfortable. They name it as safe. It is not a carcinogen. So that's why it's in our society today. It's in our food products or drinks now with anything. Of course we've talked about sugar. I don't want patients going and eating sugar all day long. It's kind of the same thing with artificial sweeteners. Different organizations. So the FDA and then kind of the similar organization in Europe have put out kind of like limits or like what they call they're called ADIs, which is acceptable daily intake amount for Aspartame, which in the US, the FDA is 40 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. In Europe they're a little more strict and there is three milligrams per kilogram body weight. So what does that actually mean for someone that's like £132? In Europe? That's about 36 cans of diet soda a day. So I'm sure there's probably someone out there that drinks that much. But I've never met someone that drinks that much soda. So it's just like putting that into perspective. How much are you actually consuming of these artificial sweeteners it's again, something we want to be mindful of making sure that we're not consuming all these all day long. As far as beverages go, water is the Holy grail. We want to be focusing on things like water, low fat milk. Those are a little bit better than just consuming something like Diet Coke all day long. So just being mindful of the bigger picture and again, realizing that you drink one Diet Coke, you're not going to get cancer. If that were true, it would not be on the market. We have systems in place to prevent that from happening. Yes. That's a good way to put it. Like it would not be available to you as much as it is if it was going to just automatically any kind of disease. I feel like that's most of our job is saying things like that. I know it's not fun to be like in moderation. I know, but that's the reality. And that's what we as health professionals have to continue to get the message out there because so many people are getting all this scary information online and they don't know what to believe because it is confusing and it's conflicting. But in almost all cases, moderation truly is key and just be mindful of what we're putting into our body every single day. Yeah. And this could be like a whole other podcast episode, I think. But like you said, it's not like sexier fun to say those things. And the struggle is that the more dramatic things that are said, like if you do have Diet Coke, you're going to get cancer. Those are the videos that go viral that everyone responds to and everyone sees. And our videos, let's have it once in a while if you want to. Just don't get all the attention. Which is, again, another conversation. But it's a good point to bring up. I was actually curious what the equivalent of the 36 cans of soda to like a liter bottle was, because I was like, maybe people drink liters, they're rather than cans. So it would be equivalent to drinking about 13 liters. Oh, my gosh, that's a lot. I'm glad you did that. That's a better visual for a lot of people. Yeah. Because I was like, I don't know how many come in a sleeve. I feel like it's 24. Like a box pack. Yeah. Because then I'm like, you'd have to drink like maybe one and a half of those. I was like, what if someone drinks something else and not 36? That's in Europe where it's a little bit even stricter than here. So that would be even more here in the US. But if we're going with their limit, which is a little bit lower. That's 36 and even that's a lot. So definitely paint a good picture there. Yes. Catch me on a Saturday. Keen. A lot. Yeah. I don't care what you're drinking. You're drinking 36 pans. That's a lot of caffeine, too. I feel like I'd be like bouncing off the walls. Yeah, that'd be wild. Okay. Well, that has been mind blowing and also hopefully very eye opening to our listeners. Those are the big questions we got for you, Mikayla. We wanted to kind of really get into the general guidelines because Emily and I have never really touched on this before. We don't really know much about it. Truthfully, it's not our specialty. So it was great to hear just the general tips and tricks of prevention and also get into the sugar itself and then the artificial sugars themselves. But if you could and if you would, what would you say to kind of sum it all up? If you could put it all into one short little sentence of phrase. Yeah. So I always like to think about nutrition and diet as information that you can use to empower yourself a lot of times with cancer. I think a lot of people, they know that there's cancer in their family and they're just doomed to get cancer. But like I said, there is a lot of power in our diet and lifestyle that can change that course and can help prevent disease. So knowing that and implementing that into the diet by, of course, focusing on those plant foods and eating a variety of those foods, trying to limit alcohol, that's a really big one that I think society is going in the right direction. But that's something that isn't talked about enough because it is a question and moving our body and treating it with kindness and try to look at cancer prevention and disease prevention in general, because that's the big thing. Like all these recommendations and everything we talked about today is to prevent cancer. But all of those same recommendations also prevent heart disease, diabetes, all of these chronic disease States that are still prevalent in the United States. It's not just about cancer, but also preventing all of these disease States and knowing that you have the power to kind of change your future and prevent that beautiful time.
Participant #1:
Awesome. So we always like ending our episodes with a fun bonus question where it's more of us just sharing our opinions. It's not really so much of a debate going to heat it, but doesn't need to know
Participant #1:
the question for today. And we always like our guest start is I'm not sure if this is we're going to make it a debate. We'll make it. Which is better, French fries or onion rings? French fries. I mean, is there really a debate? Onion ring? Is there a debate?
Participant #1:
I'll eat onion ring. I'm not going to table, but I would much rather have French fries specifically. Skinny French fries. Like steak and string. French fries. Like the shoestring ones are good. It's really good. They have a name. Yeah. Like the shoestring ones. That's what I always call them. Now I know how to describe my French fries.
Participant #1:
Yeah. Okay. Emily, I have a bad feeling about this, but go ahead. So my opinion would be onion rings are better because there's less variability in the quality of onion ring. I've rarely had a bad onion rings. I've had many fries I don't like. That's true. But I love fries. I think it's also because there's only really one type of onion ring. I don't think there's more. I don't really know how you can you could probably like sauces and seasonings. But you're right. The onion themselves. I guess you can't really mix up very much. Yes. And they're always like white or yellow, right? Like, I've never seen like a red. Yeah. It is always the same. I just like that, though. I love red onions. Same, too. Well, I love onions in general, but I got to go with the French fries. I got to go with the French fries. It's just with onion rings. When you bite into it, sometimes the whole onion comes out and then you get the crispy part. Yeah. There's no cute way to eat an onion. It is not the first date. No, definitely not. No, that's very true. That's very true. Much more petite way to eat fresh Fry.
Participant #1:
I don't love the shoestring ones. Of course, I'll eat any Fry in any onion ring, but if I had to pick a favorite, I think. Emily, did we already debate the best French fries before? Yeah. Was that just us or with someone else? I can't remember. I don't know.
Participant #1:
That was not really controversial, too, because didn't you say that you like the crinkle fries, too? And I was like, I don't like crinkle fries. You don't either. They're mushy mush. Yeah. I will say my answer was curly fries. That was your answer, slander. I like being the owner. Yeah. I think my answer was like a five guys or a rally. It's like feet and Fry. Those are my favorites. Those are good, too. Yes. Or like AAA, like waffle fries are also amazing. Those are nearing crinkle Fry territory, so I'm in place, but I feel like they are crispier than a crinkle cut. But give me an aoli dipping sauce. And I don't eat any French fries that comes with that. That's like the ultimate condiment for French fries. So good. I love an Aole.
Participant #1:
We've also had an episode where we talked about, like, the best fast food, like dipping sauces, too. So now I'm thinking my answer is aioli. I forget what I said then, but that takes to take. Yeah. Well, Emily, I'm sorry. It's two to one on this one. So delicious. I mean, we will all enjoy they're both great
Participant #1:
discriminate. Whatever. I'll enjoy it. I'll enjoy it. Well, Mikayla, give our listeners some insight on where they can find you, where they can to follow you and some more information on that if you would. Yeah. So on social media, I'm more active on Instagram. I'd say it's like the most common place you'll find me. But at sea salt and Kale on Instagram, also on TikTok and Facebook, I have a sea salt and Kale Facebook page and then I do have a blog so www. Dot sea saltandtail.com. You can find more of my recipes and just some blog posts and information there as well. Wonderful. And we'll link all those below for you guys. And we'll also link I say we like I'm part of the podcast, but I'll make sure that they leave some resources for cancer prevention that kind of dives more into these topics. And I can use some links that kind of touch on sugar and artificial sweeteners as well. If you would like some more information on that, that would be awesome. I love that. All right. Well, thank you for joining us. Okay. This is a wonderful episode, a totally new topic for our podcast. So it's going to be really great to have this to kind of refer to. If we have patients or clients or people on the internet ever ask us about it, this will be a good one to have in the right word, the databank. I don't know. Library. The library. I'm not good at words. I also called you to be Anna liver. I'm ending it on a good note. On a good note. Yeah. Goodness. Well, thanks again. We'll see you guys next week. Have a wonderful safe day. Everyone will talk to you soon. Thanks, guys. All right. Bye bye.
