Episode 123: A Non-Diet Nutrition Approach to Menopause w/ Dr. Jenn Salib Huber
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Episode Description
In this episode of The Up-Beet Dietitians podcast, Emily and Hannah are joined by Dr. Jenn Salib Huber to talk about all things menopause and debunk the nutrition myths around it. Jenn talks about what menopause is, common symptoms, and discusses food myths like “cutting out carbs” or “balancing your hormones with X.” This is a really great episode to educate yourself more about women’s health and break down the nasty rumors surrounding menopause.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber is a Canadian Registered Dietitian, Naturopathic Doctor and Intuitive Eating Counselor and she's on a mission to help women manage menopause without diets and food rules.
She helps women navigate the physical and emotional changes that happen in perimenopause and menopause, including their search for food freedom and body confidence. Working from a health at every size approach, she teaches women to become intuitive eaters and build body confidence at any stage of midlife.
In addition to her 1:1 and group programs, she's the host of 'The Midlife Feast' podcast and community that helps women "undiet" their lives after 40 so they can nourish a relationship with food that helps them discover the magic of midlife!
Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube to listen.
More from Jenn:
IG: @menopause.nutritionist
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0:08
Hello everybody welcome back to a brand
0:10
new episode of the upbeat dieticians
0:12
podcast we are joined today by Dr Jen S
0:16
Huber Jen is a Canadian registered
0:19
dietitian naturopathic doctor and
0:21
intuitive eating counselor and she's on
0:23
a mission to help women manage menopause
0:26
without diets and food rules she helps
0:28
women navigate the physical and OT
0:30
changes that happen in per menopause and
0:32
menopause including the search for food
0:34
freedom and body confidence working from
0:37
a health at every siiz approach she
0:39
teaches women to become intuitive eaters
0:41
and build body confidence at any stage
0:43
of midlife in addition to her one-onone
0:46
and group program she's the host of the
0:48
midlife Feast podcast in community that
0:50
helps Women quote unquote undiet their
0:54
lives after 40s so they can nourish a
0:56
relationship with food that helps them
0:58
discover the magic of midlife we're so
1:00
excited for today's episode
1:04
enjoy hello Jen welcome to the podcast
1:08
we're so excited to have you on thank
1:11
you so much for having me we are talking
1:13
about all things menopause and diet
1:16
culture today which is so exciting
1:18
because we've never I don't think we've
1:19
ever talked about this on the podcast so
1:22
what better time than now before we get
1:25
into it we would love to hear from you
1:27
kind of just so our audience knows a
1:29
little bit more about you A Day in the
1:30
Life what you do for work past education
1:33
Hobbies what you do for fun all that fun
1:37
yeah so obviously I'm a dietitian I'm
1:39
also a naturopathic doctor and I have
1:41
been in practice um since plaid was last
1:44
in style so late 90s um I graduated so I
1:48
started started studying nutrition in
1:51
1995 and um so that might have been
1:53
before you guys were born um yeah okay
1:58
so I've been studying new nutrition for
2:00
a long time and I've seen all the fads
2:02
and Trends come and go and come and go
2:05
and that really was kind of the big part
2:08
of why my own experience of being in per
2:12
menopause about seven years ago eight
2:14
years ago um kind of prompted me to want
2:17
to just change things up in my own
2:20
relationship with food and that kind of
2:23
led me to do what I do do now which is
2:25
helping people manage menopause without
2:27
diets and food rules so I'm Canadian but
2:30
living overseas so I live in the
2:31
Netherlands so I'm exclusively online
2:33
which so many of us are these days um
2:36
and I have three kids three cats and uh
2:39
I love to travel so um things are pretty
2:42
good right now that is so fun I did not
2:44
know you were in the
2:46
Netherlands that
2:48
is my geography is so bad I know
2:51
generally
2:53
where like it's definitely far from
2:56
Canada I know that yeah so the
2:58
Netherlands is in Europe and um so we're
3:01
kind of like just north of Belgium and
3:04
Germany oh okay yeah there we go very
3:08
cool well yeah today is all about
3:10
menopause like like Emma said we have
3:12
never gotten into this we haven't
3:13
experienced it ourselves either so just
3:16
hasn't come up but we know we have a lot
3:18
of listeners who have questions about it
3:20
so we're so excited to get into this and
3:22
we want to start out with the basics of
3:24
course so Jen walk us through like what
3:26
exactly like is menopause like when does
3:29
it usually happen what are some signs of
3:31
it what do we look for there so I think
3:34
the first thing to remember is that
3:36
menopause is actually only one day so
3:39
one menopause is the day that marks 12
3:42
months since your last period and the
3:45
average age of that happening is around
3:47
51 but it really can happen any time
3:50
like in the 10 years or so before that
3:53
or after that but it can also happen
3:55
prematurely so there will be some
3:57
listeners at some point who might be in
3:59
their 20s and actually be in menopause
4:02
because they're in premature ovarian um
4:04
insufficiency or premature menopause so
4:06
keeping in mind that there are some like
4:09
normal is average ages but obviously
4:12
there's going to be kind of variations
4:13
on that but everything from like the
4:16
first day of your period until usually
4:18
your late 30s early 40s is going to be
4:21
what we call kind of your Peak
4:22
reproductive years and then you hit
4:24
these late reproductive years things
4:26
start to change on the inside you may
4:28
not be really noticing changes in your
4:30
Cycles but when you do start to notice
4:32
that your cycle is now maybe seven days
4:34
early or seven days late we know that
4:37
you're probably in per menopause and so
4:39
when you're in early per menopause you
4:41
haven't missed a period yet you probably
4:43
haven't even had a hot flash yet but
4:45
you're definitely starting to notice
4:47
changes in your sleep changes in your
4:49
mood changes in your period it might be
4:51
heavy painful um you know I describe
4:54
them as like crime scene periods because
4:56
they can get really really awful and
4:58
uncomfortable and then when you start to
5:00
skip periods you're kind of scraping the
5:03
bottom of the egg Barrel as it were and
5:05
so when you start skipping periods
5:07
you're heading into late per menopause
5:09
where your estrogen and your
5:11
progesterone levels are more
5:12
consistently low so it might mean that
5:14
your symptoms are more predictable but
5:16
it also might mean that you're having
5:18
them more often or more of them so hot
5:21
flashes night sweats vaginal dryness all
5:23
of that really starts to kind of come
5:25
front and center when we're in late per
5:28
menopause so then hit those 12 months we
5:31
call it a day and everything after that
5:33
is postmenopause so when you're in
5:35
postmenopause you're kind of in a new
5:36
normal everything is low you're not
5:39
going up and down anymore and for most
5:41
people symptoms will start to subside in
5:43
those first couple of years um not
5:46
everyone obviously but for most people
5:49
myself included postmenopause has been a
5:51
much smoother ride than per menopause I
5:54
think I'm really glad you clarified that
5:55
it was kind of like one day I feel like
5:57
people view like menopause as like
6:01
yeah I don't even know I don't even know
6:02
what the average person thinks how long
6:04
it is but I know it's definitely longer
6:06
than a day like describe is like this
6:08
period of your life when you're going
6:10
through menopause yeah and so that's a
6:12
great Point like we don't go through
6:14
menopause we arrive at menopause um we
6:17
go through the menopause transition
6:20
which is taking us from reproductive to
6:22
post-reproductive um but yeah it really
6:24
is something that we essentially arrive
6:26
at um but we do go through a lot in the
6:31
often eight to 10 years leading up to it
6:33
so per menopause is typically when you
6:36
know people will start to feel like what
6:39
fresh hell is this every day that they
6:40
wake up they don't recognize the body
6:42
that they're in they don't recognize the
6:44
body that they see in the mirror um
6:46
they're starting to notice changes in
6:48
like mood and sleep so waking up at 3:
6:51
in the morning for no good reason so
6:53
when I went into per menopause which was
6:55
a little bit early around 37 my kids
6:58
were like seven and five and so they
7:00
were finally sleeping through the night
7:02
and I wasn't and I was not okay with
7:04
that I was really annoyed with that um
7:07
or starting to notice mood changes so
7:09
anxiety that like creeps up out of
7:10
nowhere people will often say I am not
7:13
an anxious person why am I worrying
7:15
about every little thing so noticing
7:18
changes in the experience I think is one
7:22
of the things we need to talk about more
7:24
so we all would have gotten you know
7:26
health education sex education as we
7:28
were going through school
7:30
and we would consider it a failure of
7:32
Public Health if somebody started their
7:34
period and didn't know what it was or if
7:36
somebody became pregnant and didn't know
7:38
that they were pregnant we would
7:40
consider that a public health failure
7:42
and you know studies suggest that up to
7:44
50% of women have no idea that they're
7:47
in per menopause when they're in it so
7:50
really kind of focusing on the education
7:52
and the awareness and what to expect and
7:54
talking to you know I think kids in high
7:57
school is and and earlier is what we
7:59
need to be focusing on so that we're
8:01
we're better preparing the next
8:03
Generations for a more comfortable
8:05
transition through
8:07
menopause that's such a good point I
8:09
feel like it's so first of all
8:11
misunderstood we don't even know what to
8:12
look for and also feared too it's like a
8:15
really big change a lot of negative
8:17
feelings and like mental health changes
8:19
too along with physical and I guess
8:22
that's a good segue into the next
8:23
question I have for you is I know a lot
8:25
of people Express to me that are in this
8:27
midlife area that
8:29
body changes weight gain that can also
8:32
be a side effect for some an outcome so
8:34
to speak what would you tell our
8:37
listeners who are feeling really
8:40
uncomfortable or nervous about that
8:42
possible
8:43
change yeah and so weight changes in
8:46
particular are experienced by most
8:49
people who are going through the
8:50
menopause transition um you know you can
8:53
find studies that will say that it's 80%
8:56
I would say that if you pull a 100 women
8:58
on the street 9 99 of them would say
9:00
that they went through body changes as
9:03
they you know were going through this
9:05
transition some of it likely does have
9:07
to do with estrogen um declining but it
9:10
doesn't have the impact on metabolism in
9:12
the way that we once thought it's not so
9:14
much that our metabolism slows down it's
9:17
that the change in estrogen one leads to
9:19
a redistribution of our assets and so we
9:22
go from a more pear shape to more of an
9:25
apple shape that is a change that is
9:27
happening because of you know these
9:29
hormone changes we also know that as we
9:32
go through you know our 40s 50s and 60s
9:34
that there's some age expected changes
9:37
in muscle mass which likely contribute
9:39
to overall metabolism we know that
9:41
there's changes in activity levels um
9:44
but if you really look at it on the
9:45
whole what we're seeing is that there's
9:47
this entire population uh this entire
9:50
demographic that goes through the same
9:52
thing which tells us that it's it that
9:55
it's normal right so a human body is a
9:58
changing body and you will not find
10:01
anybody who makes it through to the
10:03
other side without some kind of body
10:06
change um the other really important
10:08
piece to insert into this conversation
10:10
is that we're we're Gathering evidence
10:13
that there is also in increase in body
10:16
dissatisfaction and dysmorphia body
10:18
dysmorphia in par menopause so we
10:21
sometimes call perimenopause reverse
10:23
puberty and so just like we see um you
10:26
know young girls and you know 12 13 14
10:29
at increased risk for body dysmorphia
10:32
and um Eating Disorders we're seeing
10:34
that Peak again happen a second peak in
10:37
in midlife so all of that kind of comes
10:40
together in this perfect storm where you
10:43
can just not feel like you recognize
10:47
yourself on the inside or the outside
10:48
and it can be really uncomfortable and
10:51
if all you've ever known is restriction
10:53
and dieting and trying to control what
10:55
your body looks like it can feel really
10:58
uncomfortable to to even consider doing
11:00
anything else um which is obviously what
11:03
you know as we intuitive eating
11:05
dietitians are trying to do is to just
11:07
try and say like there is another way
11:09
you can actually be healthy and support
11:11
your health and how you feel in your
11:13
body without trying to control it I feel
11:16
like that is the perfect segue into our
11:19
next topic that is like Hannah started
11:22
saying that and I feel like that's just
11:24
the best way to transition honestly is
11:27
like what are because now that you say
11:30
like oh there's there's an alternative
11:31
way to think about it for people who are
11:34
in kind of this midlife time what are
11:38
some foods and nutrients that might be
11:40
beneficial to them because I'm sure
11:42
they've seen lots of information online
11:46
especially if they're in at that head
11:48
space where they're just trying to
11:49
figure out what is what is happening and
11:52
I just want to feel better well the
11:54
great news is that for the most part it
11:57
doesn't radically change so you don't
12:00
have to turn everything on its head you
12:02
don't have to cut things out um but
12:05
there are some things that I think if we
12:07
you know use that gentle nutrition add
12:10
in principle if we add in protein for
12:14
example a little bit more and a little
12:16
bit more often we may be able to support
12:19
or reduce some of that loss of muscle as
12:21
we get older it can help us you know to
12:23
build and maintain muscle it can help to
12:25
support our bones it can help to support
12:29
um feeling full and satisfied at meals
12:31
and so lots of people in Perry menopause
12:33
and menopause are dealing with cravings
12:35
and hunger changes and so kind of having
12:37
that focus on what do I want to add in
12:39
that will improve how I feel in my body
12:43
is a really great way to stay focused um
12:45
on that kind of intuitive eating and
12:47
that Attunement process so protein is
12:50
one of my favorites but I also really
12:51
like to encourage people to try on um
12:55
soy foods and phytoestrogen-rich foods
12:57
and so foods that contain plant-based or
13:00
plant-like similar estrogens can help to
13:04
reduce some of the more bothersome
13:06
symptoms of menopause including hot
13:08
flashes and night sweats doesn't work
13:10
for everyone and so it definitely seems
13:12
to be dose dependent and it seems to be
13:14
like related to you know the word that I
13:16
love to hate consisten consistency so if
13:19
you enjoy soy foods and can include them
13:22
often and regularly you may find that it
13:24
helps to reduce hot flashes and night SS
13:27
if you hate them and don't like them and
13:29
have no interest in eating them then
13:32
that's probably not going to be the best
13:33
choice but there are lots of other
13:36
reasons to include plant-based proteins
13:37
too so just looking at ways that we can
13:40
kind of add those things in and then
13:42
fiber is my other favorite so you can't
13:44
go wrong with fiber it is probably the
13:46
least sexy food recommendation you can
13:49
ever talk about but when we get to
13:50
midlife it is also the thing that gives
13:52
us the most bang for a buck whether
13:54
we're talking about heart health um or
13:56
gut health or anything else so those are
13:58
kind of my my top three we we love the
14:00
nutrition by addition it's just like a
14:03
much more feasible approach than I guess
14:08
speaking of Segways cut out this cut out
14:10
that and we we're sure listeners have
14:12
heard that kind of stuff especially as
14:13
they get towards midlife and bodies are
14:16
changing and I feel like the internet
14:18
gurus love to pray on people who are
14:20
vulnerable like that and they they sure
14:22
do looking for help so what are some
14:27
maybe like other common my that like
14:29
Diet culture mths that you hear that you
14:31
want to debunk I know I have one I want
14:33
to ask about cutting out
14:34
carbs myor talk yeah that's always my
14:38
favorite so I always feel bad for carbs
14:40
because they're so delicious they're so
14:42
satisfying and they're literally
14:43
everyone's favorite food and yet the
14:46
internet loves to hate them so it's like
14:47
they can't win um so I always come at it
14:50
with like facts and evidence and so I'll
14:52
say to people when we look at population
14:54
studies of people who live really long
14:58
one thing that we find consistent pretty
15:00
much across all cultures around the
15:02
world is that they include carbohydrates
15:05
and we're not talking about a little bit
15:06
we're talking about like 45
15:09
55% um probably a big reason for that is
15:12
that you know as you guys know glucose
15:14
is our body's preferred fuel so if we
15:17
want it to run efficiently we need to
15:18
give it the fuel that it wants and fiber
15:21
comes from carbohydrates primarily so um
15:24
when we're looking at not only can we
15:26
support our health but like how can we
15:29
really support feeling good in our
15:31
bodies having energy thinking clearly um
15:34
managing mood so I don't I joke that you
15:37
know in menopause we go often have this
15:40
symptom called mental Rage which is just
15:42
this like anger irritability paired with
15:45
not being able to sleep well and I can't
15:47
tell you the number of times that that
15:50
has improved dramatically when I've been
15:53
able to convince someone to add in carbs
15:57
um you know carbs carbs make such a
15:59
difference with our mood so we need
16:01
carbohydrates to make serotonin um we
16:04
obviously need it to produce energy and
16:06
our brain really thrives on it so brain
16:08
fog being such a common symptom don't
16:11
deprive your brain of fuel it makes no
16:14
sense and there's no reason to and it's
16:16
delicious so the carb myth really needs
16:18
to die um and there's all kinds of
16:20
evidence I share on my Instagram all the
16:22
time um science and studies about
16:24
carbohydrates and why we don't need to
16:26
fear them but yet the myth so I love
16:30
debunking that one for sure um another
16:32
one is it kind of coming back to Soy
16:34
that lots of people are concerned about
16:35
soy causing breast cancer um or having
16:38
kind of a role in those types of
16:40
estrogen dominant Cancers and and we
16:42
know that that's not the case either so
16:44
again lots of good evidence to show that
16:46
it doesn't cause cancer at worst it
16:49
doesn't cause it at best it may and
16:51
likely does reduce the risk of many
16:53
different kinds of cancer so um soy
16:55
phytoestrogens are extremely extremely
16:59
weak compared to our body's own
17:00
estrogens so in the range of like 1/
17:02
1200th to 1/ 1,000th the strength of our
17:05
own estrogens um so it's impossible to
17:08
eat more um or to eat so much that it
17:11
would have a negative effect um my third
17:15
one is related to fasting which is kind
17:17
of the latest you know Trend um and so
17:21
you know fasting I think I don't I don't
17:24
know when it really started it was like
17:25
the evolution of Keto when keto stopped
17:27
working the way that everyone promised
17:29
it would fasting was like hot on its
17:31
heels to come in and take keto's place
17:33
at the top of the diet Throne um but
17:35
again related to how we're feeling in
17:37
our bodies it doesn't feel good to only
17:40
eat in a certain window um it doesn't
17:42
help our brain to work well it doesn't
17:44
help us to fall asleep and the studies
17:46
show that it doesn't improve the outcome
17:49
that everyone thought it would which was
17:50
related to weight loss so um I think
17:52
that you know when we're looking at
17:54
patterns of eating as unsexy as it is
17:58
three meals a day eat when you're hungry
18:01
prioritize
18:02
satisfaction um build balanced plates
18:04
like all of those Basics that I was
18:07
taught in 95 and I'm sure you guys were
18:09
taught as well still really hold true
18:12
for helping to support us at any age but
18:15
especially through menopause I'm always
18:17
telling people that I'm like this is
18:18
gonna sound so
18:19
boring like what what else though like
18:21
what else I'm like I know it sounds like
18:22
super unsexy and boring but like we're
18:24
not even doing any of these things let's
18:26
start there and then maybe we can add
18:27
you know
18:29
more fancy sexy nutrition in the future
18:30
we got to do one thing at a time so like
18:33
as an example this so This literally
18:35
just came up today so somebody that I am
18:37
working with was really struggling with
18:39
like nighttime eating and so you know
18:41
was saying like oh I'm really good all
18:43
day and you know I I eat well and but
18:46
then I get to the evening and I just
18:48
can't stop snacking when we looked at
18:51
how they were defining eating well it
18:53
was having a single cup of Greek yogurt
18:56
for breakfast and a coffee it was having
18:59
a salad with protein for lunch and then
19:02
not having anything until dinner six or
19:05
seven hours later classic and you know
19:09
yeah classic exactly and so we just
19:11
started talking about like okay let's
19:13
actually like have the Greek yogurt but
19:15
like let's add things to it and let's
19:17
really bulk up that salad and let's have
19:20
a snack before you head home um and she
19:23
was kind of flabbergasted at how quickly
19:27
and easily it managed her quote unquote
19:30
nighttime Cravings because she wasn't
19:31
going into the evening starving like it
19:34
sounds really boring but it works and we
19:36
don't need a magic formula um we just
19:38
need to eat like it's as simple as that
19:42
exactly I'm glad you brought the fasting
19:43
too because that's definitely
19:45
been I feel like it's had a had a phase
19:48
a couple years ago where it was huge in
19:50
my experience from what I see and then I
19:52
feel like it's like for whatever reason
19:53
again just like everywhere all the time
19:56
and when we're talking about fasting one
19:58
of the biggest side effects that I see
20:00
of fasting is that it essentially
20:03
recruits bingers um so if you weren't a
20:06
binge eater before there's a good chance
20:08
that you're going to have binge eating
20:09
like behaviors after even just a couple
20:12
of months and if you're dealing with
20:14
Cravings in the evening do not think
20:17
that fasting is going to help um because
20:20
it is only going to massively intensify
20:22
those even if it feels like it's working
20:24
at first like the novelty Factor will be
20:26
there but after a while you are going to
20:28
be hungry and you are going to want to
20:30
eat everything and it's going to be
20:32
really hard to pay attention to any of
20:35
your hunger and fullness cues because
20:37
you're only gonna eat because you
20:40
can it's not sustainable or fun it's fun
20:45
as well no I love breakfast way too much
20:49
same yes
20:51
yes perfect well I feel like that did a
20:56
very good job of like kind of we
20:58
chatting and wrapping up all things like
21:00
menopause things to add more things that
21:05
maybe they've heard online that might
21:08
not necessarily be true do you have any
21:11
like last thoughts like lasting messages
21:15
you want to send our audience away with
21:18
if they could yeah take one thing away
21:21
take one thing away is that menopause is
21:23
the end of your period it is not the end
21:25
of you so many people fear menopause
21:28
they fear getting older they fear what
21:30
it means the changes um and I can tell
21:33
you that I am not alone in loving this
21:36
next season of life um there is so much
21:38
to look forward to and one of the best
21:41
parts is not having a period so um
21:43
definitely can look forward to that but
21:45
yeah it's not the end it's just another
21:47
beginning as cheesy as that sounds I am
21:50
quite excited for that one little bonus
21:51
that'll be
21:52
[Laughter]
21:54
nice that'll be nice well before we get
21:56
into our very related bonus question Jen
21:59
let our listeners know where they can
22:01
find you any links you want to share how
22:03
they can work with you if they're
22:04
interested let them know how they can
22:06
hear more from you so the best place
22:09
that where I hang out to much is on
22:10
Instagram so they can find me at
22:11
menopause. nutritionist and there's a
22:13
link in my bio with lots of things but
22:16
um I love welcoming people to my podcast
22:18
the midlife feast and also my membership
22:21
Community the midlife Feast Community um
22:24
and that's where people can kind of work
22:25
with me learn to manage menopause
22:28
without dieting food rules and hang out
22:29
with other people who are going through
22:31
the same thing amazing we'll link all
22:33
that in the show notes as well if you
22:35
guys want to look there too but thank
22:38
you so much Jen for coming on today this
22:40
was such a great episode I know even if
22:43
people aren't going through menopause or
22:45
like approaching it they're going to
22:47
take a lot away from this just because
22:48
there's so much misinformation out there
22:51
about it and also a lot of
22:52
fear-mongering about menopause and aging
22:55
in general so this will be really great
22:58
them day well this was really great by
23:00
this time they have listened to the
23:02
episode so thanks so
23:05
much perfect we'll see you guys next
23:07
week thanks for listening thanks guys
23:10
bye
The Beet Deets Bonus Segment
Listen to our ad-free premium content for a low monthly cost!
In this bonus episode, Emily and Hannah are joined by Dr. Jenn to discuss what the best type of chocolate is. Between dark, milk, and white, what's your favorite? They discuss the white chocolate controversy and Jenn shares her strong opinions about chocolate oranges. Tune in to find out if period cravings also occur with menopause
